Serious, cautious ExxP?!

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

I'm too serious compared to the other ExxPs I've seen here. I do joke around and not take things seriously when I probably should, BUT overall I think I spend more time thinking of "dark" things than other EPs. I'm not as carefree, I'm more obsessive, but engaging the outside world is fun/interesting/energizing, etc. I just seem to be plagued by some things EPs appear free of. I can usually solve things and move on; things that would put a serious dent in my friends, don't really get to me or phase me. Except for one big problem that I've had for about 3 years now... I can't seem to solve it and it's causing a "cloud of darkness" hanging over me all the damn time. I think that cloud makes me appear more serious, and less like an EP.

It also makes me appear more F-like, because the problem has started to cause emotional problems now...

I'm also relatively cautious for an EP. Perhaps it's my sp-first stacking.



2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

I want to solve my cloud of darkness so I can progress to other things. Other than that I have difficulty narrowing it down to one main thing I want out of life. But I think I want to improve the world, make large-scale contributions to a field of interest, at a system level. I wouldn't say I want to help people, it's not what motivates me, but of course if my contributions *do* help people that's great.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

Working on things I enjoy. What other people would consider work, I consider play, IF I enjoy what I'm doing. Working on an interesting project, especially if I'm collaborating with others that are not stupid and will consider my suggestions instead of continuing to do stupid things when I have a better alternative.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

When people think I'm uncreative, non-curious, or stupid. A good example is with university courses I don't find interesting. I'm so disengaged and my professors/TAs think I'm stupid because I don't participate, hand in assignments on time, etc. and non-curious because I seldom think about the course content. Of course I'm not going to think about it if I don't find it interesting, but the professors think that I'm not curious. They don't realize that I am VERY curious about things I find interesting. Their misconception actually bothers me a little. I'm in 4th year so my classes are so small everyone knows me by name.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

What contributes best to my future or the world's future, i.e. what leads me towards my goals the best. Or what allows me to keep multiple possible futures open for myself. But I know that closing doors is sometimes necessary and I will do that if I need to. I can be very decisive if I know what is best for me, and sometimes, I know.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

Emphasis on the process rather than the outcome. Ideally I would just do what's interesting and leave the rest, but in university I care somewhat about my grades... so I'll do unpleasant work for the sake of grades. So if a high grade is the outcome, I want to have control. If it's a personal project, then I just want to enjoy and be interested in the process of it.

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

In general, I like intellectually stimulating conversation that is really engaging. My memory is really bad!

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

Theorize. I don't learn through action and I don't see experience as a good teacher. I trust my perceptions and ideas; I don't need to experience something to know it.

As I said, my memory sucks, so I pretty much can't memorize things. Which is why memorization-based courses are so difficult for me.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

I'm ok. I know where things are (usually) and there aren't any rodents living in my apartment so it can't be too bad.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

Former, by far.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

I don't seek harmony, but if I accidentally find it, it's thanks to the latter.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I speak before thinking and blurt out half-formed thoughts or things I shouldn't say. I'm ok with both one-on-one and group. I get louder and less focused in groups, so one-on-one can be better to clarify my thoughts.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

I look before leaping. I think words can speak as loudly as actions.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

My friends are really annoying and I would still consider watching the show later to go out with them. Tough call.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

I start caring what other people think of me way more than usual, I believe bad things will never change, I become afraid to move forward (when normally forward is the only way I think), I get flooded with bad memories from the past (that I could never recall consciously), I say horrible things on purpose to inflict maximal damage on other people

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

When they place too much emphasis on the practical, without enough unrestrained thought. People who won't even entertain thoughts that don't have practical ends, people who refuse to speculate, people who only deal with known facts, people who are afraid of the unknown, people who dislike the new just because it's new, people who reject new ideas without any consideration just because the ideas are new

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

Politics, philosophy, psychology (not only MBTI lol), technology, cats

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life

Cleanliness of my environment, the time, physical state

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?

They always say I'm "unpredictable", but these are SJs so I don't know what unpredictable means to them. I think they are looking at each action by itself and not seeing the overall pattern behind them. They perceive me as studious, and in a way I'm always reading/writing/talking about things I find interesting, even if those things are not related to university studies.

They would never say I'm boring, needy, clingy, warm, strict, or uptight.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

Take a walk with people I like, see some new places/stores/restaurants/etc., watch movies, work on projects I like

You must have considered ENTP, doesn't it ring a bell?

I was gonna say ENTP as well.

Also SP's are stereotypically the carefree ones, not all EP's.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

I don't seek harmony, but if I accidentally find it, it's thanks to the latter.

What contributes best to my future or the world's future, i.e. what leads me towards my goals the best. Or what allows me to keep multiple possible futures open for myself. But I know that closing doors is sometimes necessary and I will do that if I need to. I can be very decisive if I know what is best for me, and sometimes, I know.

Sounds like Fi, but not robust Fi. It seems more like you have an awareness of what is important to you or what you value relative to the needs of everyone else. A lot of people who come on here looking to be typed that have a Fe preference are often really ostentatious with it. They spend a lot of time talking about the opinions of others, or the things in their upbringing that shaped them as if they were out of their control. You seem somewhat self-directed.

I think you are an ENFP who leans really heavily on Ne and Te (maybe too heavily). I think the reason you have a hard time identifying yourself based on the normal ENFP archetypes is because they are based heavily around Ne+Fi in their descriptions, but I get the sense that your value system isn't as robust as is often thought for someone with Fi in the auxiliary, (Si is clearly your inferior for both ENTP and ENFP) so you lean heavily on your extraverted functions. This isn't uncommon for extraverts (but somewhat uncharacteristic of ENFP).

ENTP would be mean you had a preference for Fe in the tertiary, that's really the biggest noticeable difference. ENTP is much more aware of the influences of the value systems around him (though sometimes not as elegant with the use of Fe as someone who has it higher in their function order). But a Ne+Te ENFP would probably look a lot like an ENTP in person.

@LiquidLight

Thanks. I was just thinking I might be Ne/Fi. I don't see Te at all, so if I am an ENFP (which is very possible) I'd have to be a regular one with Ne/Fi and much weaker Te. I'm 21, so I shouldn't have much tertiary development either way.

I'm also quite introverted, behaviourally speaking. So a dominant-tertiary loop seems unlikely.

But you are on to something. I don't have a value system, I've never really had one... my "morals" if you can call them that can be summed up by the phrase: "As long as you harm no one, do as you please." and maybe the golden rule though there are flaws to that. (And then I could get into a debate with myself over what "harm" actually means...)

I lack awareness of what is important to me, but I do know what I want. For example I know that I don't want my leg cut off, so I'll make decisions that help me avoid that fate. ETA: Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, I know what I don't want. But often a certainty that one does not want a certain consequence is enough to make a solid decision.

Originally Posted by babblingbrook

You must have considered ENTP, doesn't it ring a bell?

It does. I have considered all the types, though.

Originally Posted by themartyparade

I was gonna say ENTP as well. Also SP's are stereotypically the carefree ones, not all EP's.

I guess. Though I was told last time that I was not an EP because I seemed too... contained? I don't know. Anyway, thanks.

I think you are pretty clearly Ne/Fi if this is your philosophy:

"As long as you harm no one, do as you please."

This is almost antithetical to Fe.

The thing about the loops and you obviously know your stuff is that its really not Ne+Te so much as Ne/(weakFi) alternating with Already Weak Tertiary Te/Even weaker (barely registering) Si. It looks like Ne+Te but is probably more complex than that and probably occurs over a long period of time. Here's an interesting quote:

If Fi is, for some reason, poorly developed, NeTe may create an unpredictable and volatile personality torn between desire for admiration of his creative expressions and a need to uphold and enforce objective order on the world around him. One of the best examples of "NeTe loop" that I can think of is Steve Carrell's character on the American version of The Office--deathly desirous of the approval and adulation of his employees (Ne), he snaps abruptly into Te mode and begins barking orders and criticisms whenever his attempts to reach out for personal connections (Fi) are rejected. As a defense mechanism against feelings of being personally attacked, Te takes the opportunity to remind everyone of his objectively enforceable authority ("The Boss") in order to make others feel as belittled as he does by what he sees as their deliberate and inhumane rejection of the value of his personal identity. Later, Ne reminds him that he's not going to get anyone to like him with that sort of behavior, and Fi feels bad for upsetting people--it knows all too well what that feels like--but he's not getting the kind of validation that an ENFP thrives on, so his Fi is forced to hide behind an angry, exaggerated Te mask.

The NeFe loop ENTP exudes tremendous false confidence, but in reality has very few internal principles by which to check the opinions and perceptions of others against his own value system. He does lip service to a philosophy of integrity of independent thought, but in reality is a slave to the perceptions and expectations of others. He appears confident because he recognizes that confidence tends to favorably color the perceptions of others--or at the very least, provoke some sort of reaction, which will provide some form of feedback. This desire for novel reactions often combines with weak Fe's rudimentary awareness of what sorts of approaches will upset or offend people: the drive to experiment with people's reactions is there, but it lacks the nuance to grasp the real implications of what it's doing. The result is the classic ENTP question: "Why does everyone get upset so easily?" In reality, this is only partially true: often, it is the ENTP's own Fe mistakes that result in her interpersonal difficulties.

Which sounds more plausible to you?

Originally Posted by LiquidLight

I think you are pretty clearly Ne/Fi if this is your philosophy:

"As long as you harm no one, do as you please."

This is almost antithetical to Fe.

I know a number of (S)FJs who use that same quote as justification for same-sex marriage, polyamory, body modification and stuff like that. These SFJs are personally very much against these things but they use that phrase to support it for other people. And obviously they are all higher Fe users.

Anyway, I think tertiary Fe is a different animal to auxiliary or dominant Fe (FJ Fe) because Fe judgment in TPs is superceded by Ti judgment. I'd need a very good reason to conclude that I could stop two (or however many) consenting adults, of any gender, from enjoying themselves. Whether that's Ti or Fi, I don't know. I'm not even sure it can be matched to a function. I have seen several types voice this philosophy, though it seems especially popular among Ps (even TPs, who have Fe) and young SJs (both T and F).

The thing about the loops and you obviously know your stuff is that its really not Ne+Te so much as Ne/(weakFi) alternating with Already Weak Tertiary Te/Even weaker (barely registering) Si. It looks like Ne+Te but is probably more complex than that and probably occurs over a long period of time. Here's an interesting quote:

It doesn't look like NeTe, that's exactly my point. As I said, I can't see the Te at all. Perhaps it's just Ne off the rails, mostly on its own apart from other functions.

I'll respond to your quotes in a second; first, I want to talk about my "hollow" phases without having read the quotes. My hollow phases are relatively infrequent, but they are the times I look inside and find nothing. When I've been drawn too far out, probably become too scattered with too many new ideas I'm pursuing. I find myself becoming disturbingly impressionable by other people. I start to believe what they say about me with very little analysis of my own*; I internalize their opinions without thinking, "is this actually true?" Usually I get out of the phases because I realize what's going on, re-introvert myself temporarily to sift through information and come to conclusions for myself (as to avoid letting other people's conclusions about me supplant my own judgment).

*Instant messaging my ESFJ friend right now: he says he's like this all the time! I'm not like that very much, only if I get into a hollow phase.

Well ESFJ would be like that if they felt there was some conflict between their Fe judgment and Si internal perception. In both cases, yours and your friends what is happening is a weak auxiliary (as we've basically alluded to). What you describe would be consistent with extraverts with a dominant perception function but a weak subjective auxiliary judgment function. This is the essence of why the loop theory would exist in the first place. (I'm not convinced you're looping but just hanging out in dom/tert land too much).

In order to maintain balanced cognition we need to exercise both perception and have a mechanism for giving those perceptions value judgments. What you describe is basically an inability to provide subjective judgment (Fi or Ti) to outside influences. Let's say you are ENTP and your Ti, for whatever reason, isn't doing its job as the filter or valve between Ne and Fe, then you would be overrun by external influences, leaving only inferior Si as the only measurement of individual subjectivity. The only functioning subjective evaluation of what was 'you' versus what was the world is left to a very weak inferior function that we're not comfortable with anyway. Talk about a stressor. What you describe is a cognition where in your 'hollow space' your own subjective value judgments (Fi or Ti) are curiously absent or not as robust as one might expect (I don't think the aux can be completely absent). By the way you sound clearly ENTP from your last post.

I find myself becoming disturbingly impressionable by other people. I start to believe what they say about me with very little analysis of my own*; I internalize their opinions without thinking, "is this actually true?"

This sounds like you are saying Ne+Fe overload, and Ti isn't doing its job effectively to balance these unmitigated outside influences.

When this happens to introverts the opposite occurs. Introverts with a weak aux, become overly subjective and create a complex where they begin not to trust anything outside of their own mental faculties. They become nearly incapable of reasoning that their conclusions might not be empirically accurate, because their extraverted functions are in some way causing or contributing to stress. So they begin to lean on their more comfortable introverted functions, which of course makes the problem worse (creating the loop) because its precisely that objective external data that keeps the mind from becoming too entrenched it its own constructs.

I'm picking up on an ESTP/ISTP vibe here. I don't see a strong Ne/Ni, nothing Dom for sure. I'm sensing a lot of Se/Si, also Fe, not Fi.