Serious, cautious ExxP?!

Originally Posted by MuChApArAdOx

I'm picking up on an ESTP/ISTP vibe here. I don't see a strong Ne/Ni, nothing Dom for sure. I'm sensing a lot of Se/Si, also Fe, not Fi.

This is a good point. I know you know your functions really well, and I assume you wouldn't erroneously categorize yourself for Ne. But Se can look a lot like Ne (really they do very similar things as information gathering functions, its just Ne expands to possibility where Se is constantly ascertaining 'what is.'



I however don't see any signs of inferior-Ni with you (or Ni at all). And problems with memorization, especially of visual stimuli probably would seemingly come from an inferior subjective sensing function not a dominant one.

Originally Posted by LiquidLight

This sounds like you are saying Ne+Fe overload, and Ti isn't doing its job effectively to balance these unmitigated outside influences.

When this happens to introverts the opposite occurs. Introverts with a weak aux, become overly subjective and create a complex where they begin not to trust anything outside of their own mental faculties. They become nearly incapable of reasoning that their conclusions might not be empirically accurate, because their extraverted functions are in some way causing or contributing to stress. So they begin to lean on their more comfortable introverted functions, which of course makes the problem worse (creating the loop) because its precisely that objective external data that keeps the mind from becoming too entrenched it its own constructs.

I second this, I also believe you use Ne, Ti and Fe.

" I think they are looking at each action by itself and not seeing the overall pattern behind them. They perceive me as studious, and in a way I'm always reading/writing/talking about things I find interesting, even if those things are not related to university studies."
Suggests Ne. XNXP

"I think I want to improve the world, make large-scale contributions to a field of interest, at a system level. I wouldn't say I want to help people, it's not what motivates me, but of course if my contributions *do* help people that's great."
Suggests Ne Ti Fe, XNTP

"What contributes best to my future or the world's future, i.e. what leads me towards my goals the best. Or what allows me to keep multiple possible futures open for myself. But I know that closing doors is sometimes necessary and I will do that if I need to."
Suggests Ne

"My memory is really bad!"
Suggests inferior Si

"You try to understand the principles behind the ideas"
Suggests Ne, perhaps in comination with Ti

"My friends are really annoying"
I don't see an NF saying this.

"When they place too much emphasis on the practical, without enough unrestrained thought. People who won't even entertain thoughts that don't have practical ends, people who refuse to speculate, people who only deal with known facts, people who are afraid of the unknown, people who dislike the new just because it's new, people who reject new ideas without any consideration just because the ideas are new"
Suggests high use of Ne

"Theorize. I don't learn through action and I don't see experience as a good teacher. I trust my perceptions and ideas; I don't need to experience something to know it."
Ne over Se.

you enjoy talking about "Politics, philosophy, psychology (not only MBTI lol), technology, cats"
cats?
Anyway, these things suggest XNTP for me, especially since you put politics in there.

ENTP

Originally Posted by LiquidLight

Well ESFJ would be like that if they felt there was some conflict between their Fe judgment and Si internal perception. In both cases, yours and your friends what is happening is a weak auxiliary (as we've basically alluded to). What you describe would be consistent with extraverts with a dominant perception function but a weak subjective auxiliary judgment function. This is the essence of why the loop theory would exist in the first place. (I'm not convinced you're looping but just hanging out in dom/tert land too much).

This is likely. It's interesting too that this seems to happen with typology forums. I take in others' input about my type, put it through my own analysis, and then accept it if it fits. In the past I have just taken in other people's typings without my own analysis, which I think corresponds to dom/tert land.

In order to maintain balanced cognition we need to exercise both perception and have a mechanism for giving those perceptions value judgments. What you describe is basically an inability to provide subjective judgment (Fi or Ti) to outside influences. Let's say you are ENTP and your Ti, for whatever reason, isn't doing its job as the filter or valve between Ne and Fe, then you would be overrun by external influences, leaving only inferior Si as the only measurement of individual subjectivity. The only functioning subjective evaluation of what was 'you' versus what was the world is left to a very weak inferior function that we're not comfortable with anyway. Talk about a stressor. What you describe is a cognition where in your 'hollow space' your own subjective value judgments (Fi or Ti) are curiously absent or not as robust as one might expect (I don't think the aux can be completely absent). By the way you sound clearly ENTP from your last post.

This is pretty much what I figured was going on. No filter. Great analysis!

But in general I tend to mirror other people whether I think about it or not. That happens even when Ti judgment is not absent...

This sounds like you are saying Ne+Fe overload, and Ti isn't doing its job effectively to balance these unmitigated outside influences.

Yeah. It could also be Se+Fe couldn't it? I do think my middle functions are Ti/Fe though.

I guess there is no point responding to those quotes now lol...

Originally Posted by MuChApArAdOx

I'm picking up on an ESTP/ISTP vibe here. I don't see a strong Ne/Ni, nothing Dom for sure. I'm sensing a lot of Se/Si, also Fe, not Fi.

Originally Posted by LiquidLight

This is a good point. I know you know your functions really well, and I assume you wouldn't erroneously categorize yourself for Ne. But Se can look a lot like Ne (really they do very similar things as information gathering functions, its just Ne expands to possibility where Se is constantly ascertaining 'what is.'

I however don't see any signs of inferior-Ni with you (or Ni at all). And problems with memorization, especially of visual stimuli probably would seemingly come from an inferior subjective sensing function not a dominant one.

Interesting. As I was making this thread I was actually doubting N/S more than T/F. So if either of you (or anyone else) see signs of strong Se I would like to know where you see that. I don't think I have much Si, except in that negative way usually attributed to the inferior and 5-8 shadow functions. I do not have conscious control of Si. So I could be Si inferior (as has been said already) or Se dom.

Originally Posted by babblingbrook

I second this, I also believe you use Ne, Ti and Fe.

" I think they are looking at each action by itself and not seeing the overall pattern behind them. They perceive me as studious, and in a way I'm always reading/writing/talking about things I find interesting, even if those things are not related to university studies."
Suggests Ne. XNXP

"I think I want to improve the world, make large-scale contributions to a field of interest, at a system level. I wouldn't say I want to help people, it's not what motivates me, but of course if my contributions *do* help people that's great."
Suggests Ne Ti Fe, XNTP

"What contributes best to my future or the world's future, i.e. what leads me towards my goals the best. Or what allows me to keep multiple possible futures open for myself. But I know that closing doors is sometimes necessary and I will do that if I need to."
Suggests Ne

"My memory is really bad!"
Suggests inferior Si

"You try to understand the principles behind the ideas"
Suggests Ne, perhaps in comination with Ti

"My friends are really annoying"
I don't see an NF saying this.

"When they place too much emphasis on the practical, without enough unrestrained thought. People who won't even entertain thoughts that don't have practical ends, people who refuse to speculate, people who only deal with known facts, people who are afraid of the unknown, people who dislike the new just because it's new, people who reject new ideas without any consideration just because the ideas are new"
Suggests high use of Ne

"Theorize. I don't learn through action and I don't see experience as a good teacher. I trust my perceptions and ideas; I don't need to experience something to know it."
Ne over Se.

you enjoy talking about "Politics, philosophy, psychology (not only MBTI lol), technology, cats"
cats?
Anyway, these things suggest XNTP for me, especially since you put politics in there.

ENTP

I agree with most of your points... not all of them (e.g. the bad memory one). And yes, cats, I like them. lol.

I would think some subset of all types like to discuss politics. haha

I am quite introverted for an ENFP, and I my Te is pretty well-developed. I'm more likely to be cool than emotional when I'm uncomfortable in a situation. But I'm an ENFP, nevertheless. And I like politics and cats haha.

They would never say I'm boring, needy, clingy, warm, strict, or uptight.

The lack of warmth suggests ENTP. They're fun and enthusiastic, but I wouldn't call them warm :)

I see only ENTP in your description. Also, are you sure about your enneagram being 7? I really don't see that at all in you.

@Wilson , in your ( intro )....i actually saw things in there that i related with, mostly the darker side. I'm not your typical ENFP, as i do have a darker side also. Many of the ENFP here are sunny side up most times. That can describe me at times, although it doesn't make up everything about who i am as an ENFP. I have quite an intense personality, and very serious compared with other ENFP here. I relate very well with cautious too. People who know me IRL would say i'm dark, serious, cautious and private. I'm very happy with life as long as people don't try to push me around, manipulate, or control me. I can get quite sour if any or all of those apply.

I don't know what your type is really. Maybe you could start by narrowing it down . Spend time reading the cognitive functions. For me i thought it came together easier that way. Although i've always tested ENFP, it wasn't until i confirmed how i actually function that gave me a firm answer. XXXX are just letters. They don't mean much unless you can recognize the order of the functions and how you apply them to reality. Good luck in your search.

Interesting. As I was making this thread I was actually doubting N/S more than T/F. So if either of you (or anyone else) see signs of strong Se I would like to know where you see that. I don't think I have much Si, except in that negative way usually attributed to the inferior and 5-8 shadow functions. I do not have conscious control of Si. So I could be Si inferior (as has been said already) or Se dom.

Well you don't come off as that "grab life by the horns" and experience everything you can ESTP stereotype. I don't see all the vivid detail recall that would be characteristic of a Se-dom. Remember a Se-dom exists in the world of the visceral and physical, so the central conflict (of a Se-dom with weak Ti) is probably what might appear to be recklessness or status seeking. I would surmise ESTP would be inclined to war between their hero persona of being someone exciting against the value judgments of those in his social circle. An ESTP faced with a dilemma here (if the Fe value judgments conflicted with something Se wanted to experience) would probably retreat back into their hero persona (Se) as a way of sorting it out, by either becoming physically expressive, impracticality (especially with weak Ti), playing games of "anything you can do I can do better", etc. It helps to explain why looping ESTP's often come across as bullies (if Ti was working as it should, it should be able to balance Se+Fe moral dilemmas against what is logical).

So I still think you are ENTP.

Originally Posted by Wilson

I agree with most of your points... not all of them (e.g. the bad memory one). And yes, cats, I like them. lol.

I would think some subset of all types like to discuss politics. haha

I'm not fully sure if bad memory is related to inferior Si per se, but I think it must have some correlation. And I like cats too.

It's just the pattern you put up there that made me think XNTP. I'm not saying discussing politics is type related.

There are some famous ENTP philosophers like Michel Foucault, Jacques Lacan and Slavoj Zizek (although I think he might be more of a type 6w5 or maybe even a type 8w7 sx/so) whom I find very interesting. There are lots of videos of Zizek on youtube.

I also agree that you sound more ENTP... and just to toss it out there, some say that Ti/Fe can imitate Te, and Fe/Ti can imitate Fi:

Originally Posted by SyndiCat

Irrational Function Imitation:
- Fi works as individual values, but, along with Te, create common values. They create the essence of Fe; the illusion of Fe. In other words, Fi and Te together becomes a common understanding (Fe) to the representative.

- Fe works as common values, but, along with Ti, create individual values. They create the essence of Fi; the illusion of Fi. In other words, Fe and Ti together becomes an individual understanding (Fi) to the representative.

- Ti works as individualistic facts, but along with Fe, create common facts. They create the essence of Te; the illusion of Te. In other words, Ti and Fe together becomes a common understanding (Te) to the representative.

- Te works as common facts, but along with Fi, create individual facts. They create the essence of Ti; the illusion of Ti. In other words, Te and Fi together becomes an individual understanding (Ti) to the representative.

So that might be something to consider as well. Good luck! =]