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INTP, some other NT or perhaps something entirely else?

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This is a discussion on INTP, some other NT or perhaps something entirely else? within the What's my personality type? forums, part of the Personality Cafe category; Do you find that you usually take the time to gather all the information that you can before making judgments/decisions ...

  1. #11
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Do you find that you usually take the time to gather all the information that you can before making judgments/decisions about things or are you more result-driven and immediate in terms of making judgments/decisions?

  2. #12

    Shumate, ENFP:
    Sometimes an INTJ may resemble an INTP or vice versa because the individual’s Critical Parent function (6th) has “hijacked” the Good Parent function (2nd or auxiliary), to use Bob McAlpine’s phrase. I have noticed that my own Critical Parent (Witch/Senex) archetype can be very loud, and this may enable it to drown out the auxiliary; at least this is my understanding of John Beebe‘s model (but he has not vetted this statement). I believe this can happen to any personality type when stressed.

    When this happens to an INTJ, his auxiliary extraverted thinking (Te) Good Parent might be suppressed by his introverted thinking (Ti) Critical Parent. Then it may look as if he is using both Ni and Ti and so one might think he’s an INTP because the Ti Critical Parent seems so prominent. Ti in any position is a kind of hair-splitting function, defining and refining for ever more precision, and when it falls in the 6th position can express as harsh criticism. In this case, the INTJ can appear exasperatingly nit-picky.

    Similarly, for an INTP, if the Critical Parent archetype suppresses her auxiliary Good Parent function (Ne), her Ni (6th) might overpower her Ne (2nd), and she may appear to be using both Ti and Ni. Ni is the ‘knowing’ function, the process that intuits the answer without having data for it, and when it appears in the Critical Parent position, it could make the INTP seem arrogantly obstinate about her position.


    Hunziker, INTJ:
    As we develop our basic dominant and auxiliary type toolkit, usually at an early age, we are also developing their opposite-attitude ‘cousins’ to a lesser degree. A mushroom hunter must not only become familiar with the look of the edible mushrooms he uses, but also of the similar-looking toxic ones that he doesn’t, in order to tell them apart. Similarly, we must develop both extraverted thinking (Te) and introverted thinking (Ti), for example, up to the point where we are able to see the difference and determine which one works best for us—our natural preference. So an INTJ with auxiliary Te will also have some ability to engage her Ti sixth function. Most will have a well-developed, well differentiated auxiliary Te. But some INTJs appear to develop both Te and Ti without ever really separating the two. This may lead to a ‘muddy,’ not very effective, concurrent use of the function in both attitudes. This tandem early development of the opposite-attitude cousins or our preferred functions seems a likely source for the problem of J/P confusion.

    (Source: see below)
    You could identify with the INTJ type for some time und find out whether you prefer it to the INTP type, slowly learning more about Tx and Nx and their order.

    If you are really curious you might take into consideration that you are a special case that doesn’t (easily) fit the MBTI system because your first two functions are both introverted:

    Douglass J. Wilde (Stanford): INTJ or INTP? Both!

    Quantitative analysis [9] of the MBTI® scores shows that the answer to the question “Is it INTJ or INTP?” is — BOTH! This is because when the J/P score is less than the I score, as seems to be assumed in this discussion, the type is “doubly-introverted”, as proven rigorously in pp. 67-9 of Wilde, D. J. (2011) “Jung’s personality theory quantified”, Springer, London, subsequently referred to as “JPTQ”. Consequently it has dominant and auxiliary attitudes that are BOTH introverted. The “doubleversion” phenomenon has been noted previously by (June) Singer and Loomis, Spoto, and Geldart.

    For INTj, (here the “j” is lower case to emphasize its smallness) introverted (not extraverted) thinking Ti is thus in the second “good parent” position rather than in the sixth “critical parent” position where Te truly resides. So Ti is not “hijacking” Te; the confusion comes from using conventional “type dynamics” (TD) theory instead analyzing quantitatively.

    Disturbingly for MBTI® practitioners, quantitative theory contradicts TD’s “attitude balance” rule that the auxiliary attitude must differ from that of the dominant, which for INTj would have extraverted thinking Te auxiliary to contrast with the dominant Ni. It happens however that Te is in this case a third “subsidiary” function-attitude (hereafter called “(cognitive) mode” to avoid confusion with the previously defined words “function” and “attitude”). The two subsidiary modes, which complete the quartet formulated by Jung, are overlooked by TD’s consideration of only the dominant and auxiliary modes. For INTj, the second subsidiary mode Ne will usually have a negligible “slight” score less than 20% (6 out of MBTI®’s possible 30).
    Mark, your discussion makes you sound like a double-introvert. Send me your MBTI® scores and I’ll unpack them to obtain your mode scores. You’re in for another surprise if your T score exceeds your N score, contradicting another unreliable TD assumption.

    If you would like a feel of the arithmetic before tackling the rigorous JPTQ book, here is a “packing table” showing the cognitive mode scores for a set of INTj scores reasonably describing the situation at hand. The questionnaire scores 60%I, 60%N, 60%T, 20%j “unpack” into the mode scores 50%Ni, 40%Ti, 20%Te, 10%Ne. Each row gives the score points generated for each questionnaire variable by the row’s mode. The column sums then match the questionnaire scores, PROVING the correctness of the transformation of questionnaire scores into mode scores.

    The mode scores show why the personality description for INTj should involve both INTJ and INTP type table descriptions. The INTJ description combines those for the Ni and Te mode descriptions; INTP, for Ti and Ne. A crude way of understanding the distribution of emphasis is given by averaging the questionnaire scores to obtain 50% for INTJ and 40% for INTP – almost equal. Thus INTj can be seen as “bi-typal”, to coin an uncomfortable new word.

    To keep this note from being too upsettingly long, discussion of the subsidiary modes, which seem to drift into the shadow, will be withheld until you ask for it.
    INTj PACKING TABLE

    Mode Mode P-mode 60%I 60%N 60%T 20%J
    identification scores or J-mode?
    Dominant 50%Ni J 50i 50n 50j
    Auxiliary 40%Ti P 40i 40t -40j
    Dominant subsidiary 10%Ne P -10i 10n -10j
    Auxiliary subsidiary 20%Te J -20i 20t 20j
    Check: algebraic sum - - 60i 60n 60t 20j

    Question of the Day: INTJ or INTP?
    Don't take the four letters too serious, go as you please ...

    INTJ: Lord keep me open to others' ideas, WRONG though they may be.

    INTP: Lord help me be less independent, but let me do it my way.

    ENTP: Lord help me follow established procedures today. On second thought, I'll settle for a few minutes.

    ENTJ: Lord, help me slow downandnotrushthroughwatIdo.

    Amen.

    Prayer for Myers Briggs Types


     
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