[vt1099ace]

Crush your enemies and see them driven before you!
Revel in the lamantations of the women!

these are the best things in life!

[Marlowe]

Yes, that's why they're pissed off all the time, can't relax. It also causes them to run into a lot of obstacles when there should be none. They expect a battle on a trip to 7-11.

I think to some extent we create obstacles for ourselves to push against. Life is easier when there's an enemy standing in the way.

[dfoster]

People are used to the popular self-help approach to Eight:

Your strengths are...
Your weaknesses are...
What you need to improve upon...

It's all good but it should be presented AFTER the correct context has been established: You are a vengeful mofo!

All insights and advises should be taken from that perspective.

I think a good way to find out if a type is your type... read the darkest, most messed up parts of it first. If it's inside you, it will cause a noticeable reaction. For me, I was blushing and extremely uncomfortable when I read through these, I was truly embarrassed because I knew that it rang a bell. If you don't feel these messed up part inside you, then may be you're not an Eight (may be time to rejoice :-))

[Marlowe]

People are used to the popular self-help approach to Eight:

Your strengths are...
Your weaknesses are...
What you need to improve upon...

It's all good but it should be presented AFTER the correct context has been established: You are a vengeful mofo!

All insights and advises should be taken from that perspective.

I think a good way to find out if a type is your type... read the darkest, most messed up parts of it first. If it's inside you, it will cause a noticeable reaction. For me, I was blushing and extremely uncomfortable when I read through these, I was truly embarrassed because I knew that it rang a bell. If you don't feel these messed up part inside you, then may be you're not an Eight (may be time to rejoice :-))

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that eights are one of the types most likely to not suffer guilt for their decisions/behavior. Can it not be said some of us might not feel guilt for the bad aspects of ourselves?

[dfoster]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that eights are one of the types most likely to not suffer guilt for their decisions/behavior. Can it not be said some of us might not feel guilt for the bad aspects of ourselves?

you mean some Eights might read about the bad stuff and not recognize them? I think so. Since Eights are in denial, they are also in denial about denial. So they can be impossible to get to.

For me, I outright rejected it the first time around. I set aside Ichazo, Naranjo, Almaas & Maitri's books for a long time because I ran into things I didn't like. But as I read other books, they kept hinting bits and pieces of the former. I finally decided to get the whole truth and dove into them. The lust part was relatively easy to accept, the revenge part took a long time. But even when I was avoiding it, it was nagging me the whole time.

[dfoster]

Crush your enemies and see them driven before you!
Revel in the lamantations of the women!

these are the best things in life!

Conan!
I know, I lived by this everyday :-)

[n2freedom]

Naranjo, in Character and Neurosis:

Ennea-Type VIII: "Sadistic Character and Lust"
Lust is.. a kinship to indolence... an attempt to compensate for a hidden lack of aliveness.


"Anti social personality disorder"
"phallic narcissistic"
disobedient and defiant
"moral anesthesia"

... guiltlessness, incapacity of object love, impulsivity, emotional shallowness

concealed sadistic characteristics <----- sadistic characteristics are reserved for those whom I deem deserve it

exploitative orientation

"does not expect to receive things from others as gifts, but to take them away from others by force or cunning"

He describes the most unhealthy 8s as anti-social personalities:
hostile affectivity, assertive self-image, interpersonal vindictiveness, malevolent projection...

"the need for vindictive triumph"

"He is convinced that everyone at the bottom is malevolent and crooked, that friendly gestures are hypocritical... regard everyone with distrust"

He quotes Horney on a "lusty person" (8):

"He is openly arrogant, often rude and offensive, although sometime this is covered with a thin veneer of civil politeness. In subtle and gross ways with or without realizing it, he humiliates others and exploits them. He may use women for the satisfaction of his sexual needs with utter disregard for their feelings....uses people as a means to an end......maintains contacts exclusively on the basis of their serving his needs for triumph....as stepping stones in his career....utter disregard of others' needs...

contemptuous disregard for others...intimidating others into a subdued appeasement...

"This absence of sympathy has many causes, lying in his hostility towards others and in his lacking sympathy for himself. But what contributes most to his callousness toward others is the envy of them. It is a bitter envy --not for this for that particular asset, but pervasive--and stems from his feeling excluded from life in general....
lust may be seen as repressed envy


Now in Naranjo's own description of type 8:

The revenge which is present in ennea-type VIII is a long term one... in response to the pain, humiliation and impotence felt in early childhood.

"a manifestation of vindictive punitiveness" <-----definitely

"power seeking", "putting others down", "disdain and scorn for others" <----- reserved treatment for enemies (in other words people who cross the line and take things too damn far)

Their seductiveness, bragging, and arrogant claims are consciously manipulative; they are geared to gaining influence and elevation in the power and dominance hierarchy. <------ sometimes; it depends

...to compensate for feelings of guilt, shame and worthlessness evoked by his disregard of others the individual has engaged in a process of guilt denial...

... ennea-type VIII character fails to constitute full humanness..

...lust, in its impetuous grasping of the tangible, entails an impoverishment of tender qualities and subtlety which results in a loss of wholeness...this reaching, substituted for being, leaves him forever dissatisfied, craving intensity.

I can relate to items in blue. I guess I am Frankenstein's daughter.

[n2freedom]

Eight is the closest thing to an animal


Sandra Maitri in her two books:


(8's lust) Our love for what we desire and fully taking it in - devouring it - are indistinguishable here. Here, we are like a lion stalking our prey... everything and everyone is just food to us....

... Eights have a thick layer of callousness and deadness separating them from contact with their vitality. It is as though their soul has become hardened, desensitized.

His inner powerlessness, helplessness, and vulnerability... are what he considers the core of his weakness... the rest of his life can be seen as an attempt to grapple with this basic sense of culpability and the resulting feeling of guilt...

He imitates essential strength ... the false strength that characterizes the Eight personality type is static, rigid and inflexible... using the same amount of force for everything he does...

...often unaware of the suffering and hurt feelings of others and is inconsiderate, not noticing the effect of his often brusque, blunt, and callous manner upon them. <----only when hurt or betrayed by others

Denial also makes it appear to him the that the problem is always outside of himself. The enemy is the other, who seems out to get him, wants to humiliate him, is treating him unjustly..

He rebuffs responsibility for how he is treated... and accuses others for his difficulties and believing that the deck is stacked against him.

-----------------------

The blaming part of Eight is a serious one, since the world is at fault for messing with him, he's not responsible for trampling on others to get what he wants. He looks for others for the cause of his problem. Running over one after another looking for the culprit that "stands in his way". If he terminates all of his enemies, the culprit is still there, because it's inside him.

Highlighted what I relate to in blue. Very dramatic and exaggerated read....... Author uses way too many words that reflect absolutes for my liking.

[dfoster]

I can relate to items in blue. I guess I am Frankenstein's daughter.

So.... what are you doing this weekend? :-)

[n2freedom]

So.... what are you doing this weekend? :-)

LMAO! That was too funny. I guess I will be on the prowl looking for some prey to devour.......

Besides it will never work a relationship only has room for one *predator* and I ain't playing the role of possum.....unless you want to??? If so, then maybe we can work something out....... LMAO!!!