[Boompa]

Just stumbled in here a few days ago and I've been reading voraciously; this after devouring 3 books on the Enneagram. (Typical 7 behavior, right?)

ANYWAY... as I began studying the Enneagram I was INSTANTLY sure I was a 2. I'm forever helping others with time, encouragement and money. I've bought several cars for people who needed the help, paid for some house remodeling for a friend whose son was seriously injured after being hit by a car and didn't have any money to change the tub to a shower, install handrails, etc., etc., etc. I happily pay for friends to travel, etc. etc., etc. In short- I love "helping" others... usually to excess. Classic 2, right?

That said- I am the first to admit that in about 95% of these cases it's women I help: usually attractive women who are recently divorced, etc.. Needless to say this causes my wife LOTS of emotional stress- understandably. I feel "drawn" to help these individuals and they really ARE difficult situations where help is desperately needed... but still.

I fit several other aspects of 2ness as well and I absolutely LOVE the positive strokes and feedback my generosity produces from these individuals- but also appreciation from a wider audience as well: "Wow! You're such a great guy- so generous and kind and caring!" 2's can never get enough "attaboys".

BUT....

Studying further in the Enneagram brought me to sevens. The overwhelmingly dominant force in my life is PURE 7! With plenty of disposable income, I indulge my every passing interest, buying several cars each year, boats, collectibles, musical instruments, etc., etc., etc. Boredom is anathema to me and my mind is continuously swirling with "plans" and researching every new topic under the sun. Yet each acquisition brings ZERO satisfaction after 24 hours and it's on to the next topic or acquisition. It's exhausting frankly. I'm the life of every party, the consummate entertainer, storyteller, sit and there's always a crowd around me. In short- as I read about sevens... it's ME! Start to finish, top to bottom- I'm a seven.



So now... back to the 2 behaviors. I think it's POSSIBLE that each of these individuals (as I said, usually single, attractive women) that need help simply pop onto my radar like the latest guitar or sports car- an appealing, interesting, charming "acquisition" that's really more about exploring something new and shiny than genuinely helping someone for altruistic reasons. There is admittedly almost always a sexual attraction and usually an "energy" between the two of us- though it has never lead to any inappropriate behavior and I wouldn't ever want it to. But it's exciting and "tingly" to experience each new relationship and to genuinely make a difference in someone's difficult situation.

Bottom line: I have NO DOUBT I'm a 7 at my core... actually a 7w6 specifically. But I'm trying to understand HOW this 2-like behavior ties into my 7ness as I want to become more purposeful and integrated in my behavior.

Thoughts??

[aconite]

Have you heard about tritypes? You might be a 7w6 with 2 heart fix.

Tritypes and Instinctual Variants (sp, sx, so) explained.

[Boompa]

I've just read a little about tritypes, but not enough to understand it yet. That's worth looking into more deeply. Thanks for the heads-up and the link. Clearly there's some SX and some "2" going on in my head! LOL!

[Swordsman of Mana]

Just stumbled in here a few days ago and I've been reading voraciously; this after devouring 3 books on the Enneagram. (Typical 7 behavior, right?)

ANYWAY... as I began studying the Enneagram I was INSTANTLY sure I was a 2. I'm forever helping others with time, encouragement and money. I've bought several cars for people who needed the help, paid for some house remodeling for a friend whose son was seriously injured after being hit by a car and didn't have any money to change the tub to a shower, install handrails, etc., etc., etc. I happily pay for friends to travel, etc. etc., etc. In short- I love "helping" others... usually to excess. Classic 2, right?

That said- I am the first to admit that in about 95% of these cases it's women I help: usually attractive women who are recently divorced, etc.. Needless to say this causes my wife LOTS of emotional stress- understandably. I feel "drawn" to help these individuals and they really ARE difficult situations where help is desperately needed... but still.

I fit several other aspects of 2ness as well and I absolutely LOVE the positive strokes and feedback my generosity produces from these individuals- but also appreciation from a wider audience as well: "Wow! You're such a great guy- so generous and kind and caring!" 2's can never get enough "attaboys".

BUT....

Studying further in the Enneagram brought me to sevens. The overwhelmingly dominant force in my life is PURE 7! With plenty of disposable income, I indulge my every passing interest, buying several cars each year, boats, collectibles, musical instruments, etc., etc., etc. Boredom is anathema to me and my mind is continuously swirling with "plans" and researching every new topic under the sun. Yet each acquisition brings ZERO satisfaction after 24 hours and it's on to the next topic or acquisition. It's exhausting frankly. I'm the life of every party, the consummate entertainer, storyteller, sit and there's always a crowd around me. In short- as I read about sevens... it's ME! Start to finish, top to bottom- I'm a seven.

So now... back to the 2 behaviors. I think it's POSSIBLE that each of these individuals (as I said, usually single, attractive women) that need help simply pop onto my radar like the latest guitar or sports car- an appealing, interesting, charming "acquisition" that's really more about exploring something new and shiny than genuinely helping someone for altruistic reasons. There is admittedly almost always a sexual attraction and usually an "energy" between the two of us- though it has never lead to any inappropriate behavior and I wouldn't ever want it to. But it's exciting and "tingly" to experience each new relationship and to genuinely make a difference in someone's difficult situation.

Bottom line: I have NO DOUBT I'm a 7 at my core... actually a 7w6 specifically. But I'm trying to understand HOW this 2-like behavior ties into my 7ness as I want to become more purposeful and integrated in my behavior.

Thoughts??

are you sure you're typed correctly? although we're generally friendly and sociable, 7s by nature are selfish and hedonistic. we may help people, but it's generally not something we spend the majority of our time doing. and we don't have much use for "attaboys". I think you are a 2w3 with a 7w6 fix and definitely So dom

[Destiny Lund]

I'm similar. I'm 7w8-2w1-8w9sx/so Tritype & this whole "7's are selfish & hedonistic" stuff is putting me off. I've always scored high with 7, 7 has always SLIGHTLY won over 2. For a while I thought I was 2-7-8, my recent research though tells me I've had it kinda flipped & that I'm 7-2-8. I COMPLETELY relate with 7 when it comes to every single behavior & trait in all the descriptions except for a couple things, 1 of those things is putting yourself before others. I don't do that, I've never done that, I never will. I'm about as selfless as it gets. According to my research, only descriptions of UNhealthy 7's show signs of great selfishness. I've read that if you're pretty balanced & healthy, that being selfish isn't a very common thing. Though, there are a ton of selfish people in this world, maybe a decent fraction of those people are 7's & that's why there is this generalization/stereotype? I despise that some people on these forums tend to emphasize that some types are better than others, that certain types have more "good" traits within them. I see selfishness as a very negative unnecessary thing, something to grow away from & better yourself. Negative things should never be considered a part of personality. Negative means unhealthy, therefore, not you're true form. That's just my belief. :-)

[leadintea]

Honestly, it's really just @Swordsman of Mana that I see constantly saying things like 7's are selfish and care more about their happiness than others. Hedonistic, I've seen in other texts, but not selfishness. If anything, so 7's can seem very similar to 2's and can actually like helping people. The only difference is that a 2 doesn't mind helping others the majority of the time whereas a 7 can sometimes feel conflicted about helping others versus pursuing their own goals.

[Swordsman of Mana]

I'm similar. I'm 7w8-2w1-8w9sx/so Tritype & this whole "7's are selfish & hedonistic" stuff is putting me off. I've always scored high with 7, 7 has always SLIGHTLY won over 2. For a while I thought I was 2-7-8, my recent research though tells me I've had it kinda flipped & that I'm 7-2-8. I COMPLETELY relate with 7 when it comes to every single behavior & trait in all the descriptions except for a couple things, 1 of those things is putting yourself before others. I don't do that, I've never done that, I never will. I'm about as selfless as it gets. According to my research, only descriptions of UNhealthy 7's show signs of great selfishness. I've read that if you're pretty balanced & healthy, that being selfish isn't a very common thing. Though, there are a ton of selfish people in this world, maybe a decent fraction of those people are 7's & that's why there is this generalization/stereotype? I despise that some people on these forums tend to emphasize that some types are better than others, that certain types have more "good" traits within them.

7 is an Id type. Id types in general are more selfish. 3s seek their own gratification, victory, acclaim etc; 8s seek power, control; 7s seek pleasure and entertainment and avoid pain and boredom (obviously, a 7 may like helping people, be caring and considerate, etc, but no core 7 is going to devote their life to others. that's just not happening

I see selfishness as a very negative unnecessary thing, something to grow away from & better yourself.

this is where we differ. I see selfishness as a very positive thing. selfish people get what they want. selfish people are also happier, experience less pain and are less conscientious

Negative things should never be considered a part of personality. Negative means unhealthy, therefore, not you're true form. That's just my belief. :-)

you're missing the entire point of the enneagram if you think including negative characteristics in descriptions should not be done. the enneagram is a tool to give people the reality bitch slap, akin to "you are delusional, wake up!". the enneagram is a distortion in one's view of reality. a distortion which causes certain ego fixations and negative behavior patterns. the positive traits of an enneagram type are side effects to an overall harmful delusion. (in the case of 7, their fixation leads to difficulty with delayed gratification, struggles with discipline/hard work, difficulty concentrating and similar issues)
btw, you seem to have a tendency to think "the negative isn't important, let's ignore it and focus on the positive" and this is very much a bias of the positive outlook triad (2s, 7s and 9s)


@leadintea

Hedonistic, I've seen in other texts, but not selfishness. If anything, so 7's can seem very similar to 2's and can actually like helping people

you can be selfish and still like to help people (and you're right, a large number of 7s do) they may even be service oriented, in fact, the majority of descriptions say that we tend to be generous when we can afford to be, but what I'm saying is that the vast majority of the 7's mental resources are not geared toward "how can I help others?" the primary focuses of 7s are comfort, escapism, hedonism and entertaining themselves. obviously, enneagram related interests don't account for the only significant influence on one's thoughts (there are several) but the core fixations of 7s are selfish in nature.


EDIT: @Boompa
sorry for the derail
my opinion of your type is 2w3-7w6-9w1 in some order, but not core 9. reading through it a second time, the fact that you have disposable income is very relevant. 7s tend to be quite generous when they have plenty of extra income (but not when they don't) and this can look very 2-ish. you also mentioned that much of the time, they tend to be single, attractive women, in which case your generosity is not type related and has to do with the fact that you're a guy and feel compelled to help them because they're hot.

[leadintea]

@leadintea

you can be selfish and still like to help people (and you're right, a large number of 7s do) they may even be service oriented, in fact, the majority of descriptions say that we tend to be generous when we can afford to be, but what I'm saying is that the vast majority of the 7's mental resources are not geared toward "how can I help others?" the primary focuses of 7s are comfort, escapism, hedonism and entertaining themselves. obviously, enneagram related interests don't account for the only significant influence on one's thoughts (there are several) but the core fixations of 7s are selfish in nature.

I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the clarification.

[Swordsman of Mana]

I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the clarification.

interesting. I was prepared for a long debate, I wasn't expecting to come to an agreement so soon XD (I think part of it is I'm used to getting into disagreements with Ts, where two NFs in a disagreement are more about trying to come to a mutual understanding)
@Boompa
here's a few more key differences
- 2s tend to think in a slightly more obligatory way. "I need to help him" ""we have to do something about this" 7s on the other hand rarely if ever think in terms of obligation. 2s consider helping people a responsibility; 7s do not, they do it because they want to/feel like it. it's an in the moment thing rather than in the case of the 2 in which it's often much more premeditated (now that I think about it
- similarly, the 2 tends to be somewhat more conscientious than the 7. the natural demeanor of type 7 is very much "devil may care" where the 2s natural demeanor runs more towards "let's help the family" (particularly if they're So first. I don't know much about Sp dom 2s, they are probably a lot harder to spot)

2s and 7s both tend to have friendly, sociable demeanors, but their internal struggles are completely different
- the 2 struggles with self worth. there internal subconscious dialogue is "I will be valuable with I am a good person and people love me" 2s integrate to 4 when they learn to get in touch with their own feelings and learn to accept themselves unconditionally "what do I want?" "I don't need to constantly put myself in positions where people need me in order to be worth something"
- the 7 struggles with fear. this is less obvious at first (7s are in the denial triad along with 9 and 3 and in the head center, so they deny fear), but it is the route of their problems. most people procrastinate at least a little bit and somethings find hard work a drag, but for the 7 this is more severe. 7s are afraid of hard work, they are afraid of boredom or feeling unsatisfied (to use a personal example. I've noticed I'm often a little bit nervous when I place an order. the concept of them messing up something and bringing me a meal I don't find delicious kinda scares me. I know, pathetic right? LOL). most of all though, the 7 fears pain. pain is the antithesis of the 7's internal world.

[Pucca]

but no core 7 is going to devote their life to others. that's just not happening

Oh yes they will, particularly if they are their own flesh and blood.
And it will feel like an obligation, and a responsibility, and it will drain them to be needed all the time.
My bliss is when I can get away and not think about all those that depend upon me. Though I love them dearly and will do my very best by them...it's still WORK...rewarding, yet very hard work.
(As I'm using escapism to deal with just being in the vicinity of people who need me.)



Oh, and to answer the OP.
I had a bit of a god complex for a while. I wanted people to want me, need me, depend on me, acknowledge how great I was. I thought I was being selfless, but when it came down to it, I liked the strokes it gave me. It drained my emotional resources and kept me from focusing on myself and my obligations. It may have been yet another form of escapism. It was a symptom of unhealth in me. Be careful.