[Enneagram Type 4] Article about the science behind enneagram

Article about the science behind enneagram

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  • 3 Post By Ryosuke93
  • 1 Post By aestrivex

This is a discussion on Article about the science behind enneagram within the Type 4 Forum - The Individualist forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; The Enneagram Blogspot: Scientific Proof for the Enneagram The Enneagram and Brain Chemistry TYPE Serotonin Norepinepherine Dopamine Eight Low Low ...

  1. #1
    Type 4w3

    Article about the science behind enneagram

    The Enneagram Blogspot: Scientific Proof for the Enneagram

    The Enneagram and Brain Chemistry


    TYPE Serotonin Norepinepherine Dopamine
    Eight Low Low High
    Nine High Low Low
    One Neutral Low Neutral
    Two High Neutral Neutral
    Three Neutral Neutral High
    Four Low Neutral Low
    Five Neutral High Low
    Six Low High Neutral
    Seven High High High

    I just wanted to write out the things I have found over the past week and some insights I have gathered. I found these two articles recently and they are quite eye-opening. It talks about the balance of neurotransmitters (dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin) and how they found patterns about the levels of these in each enneagram type.

    Reading through it, I think it is no wonder why 4's can display lots of empathy and compassion for those who are suffering since we often know how it is literally like to feel low, to feel the pain associated with not feeling our best...(due to low serotonin and dopamine).

    And no wonder 4's feel like something is "missing" in their lives. I would argue that it just might be these mood enhancing neurotransmitters which the other types seem to have much more of. I think though that being low on serotonin and dopamine, makes us more "sensitive" to what does lift the mood. 4's are drawn to art, to beauty, to music, to good friends, to good books, good words, and role-models, since these things might naturally increase serotonin. And it also might serve as the unfortunate reason of why some famous 4's turn to drugs, to boost these neurotransmitters. I think it's best to boost these levels through meaningful and positive ways, not superficial ways such as through drugs.

    I think having naturally low serotonin makes us more likely to indulge our emotions, like if we are feeling super sad, we feel like we can't tend to anything else. These actions are something I read that other types frown upon 4's, saying this makes us self-absorbed, not disciplined. But hey, if you had very low sense of well-being, very low serotonin (due to a big blow to your psyche by some event), then you're gonna notice it and want to take care of it, it is almost like it is crucial to your own survival. I realize now though, how exercise and meaningful positive actions are needed in these tough times. We mustn't just wallow in sadness, we must take positive action to correct it, though its gonna be difficult because of our low dopamine which makes us too tired to take action at times.

    I read that 4's might need to learn to integrate to 7 before finding a healthy integration to 1. This makes sense by looking at the patterns of neurotransmitters. 7's have an abundance of natural serotonin and dopamine. I think if 4's just move to a 1, prematurely, we can end up being really critical on ourselves and on the people around us, on the world around us! Because we haven't learned to let go of our past hurts. If we become more present to the joys in our life and in future possibilities like healthy 7's, we will be able to let go of past hurts more readily, and more able to discern what is truly right and wrong, be truly objective (rather than overly critical) like a healthy 1.

    Now, some controversy lies in what created this pattern...nature vs. nurture...But either way it shows that if we are to move to healthier states of being, it's gonna take time. It might take exercise, yoga, listening to music, to help boost the serotonin and dopamine levels....while other types, like 6, might use these techniques to lower their high levels of nor-epinephrine, which can be responsible for the underlying anxiety they often feel.

    There might be a whole lot more to the science behind the enneagram, but I think these results are a good start. It makes me seriously consider how I need more exercise in my life. It makes me think that I don't have to be so hard on myself if I find myself not growing, still feeling melancholy, and falling back to bad habits, because these are things that are going to take time. It might take more support, focus, and exercise, sleep, to help boost my sense of well-being and confidence.

    At first I kind of shunned exercise, I didn't want to just artificially feel happy. But now I see, exercise won't make me artificially happy. It will give me energy and new drive to work through my troubles, and by working through these troubles, then contentment and true satisfaction and positive change will be sure to follow. We just need to start that spark.
    Le9acyMuse, Transcendence and Aquamarine thanked this post.



  2. #2
    Type 4w3

    So, this is trying to highlight a cognitive connection thru the Enneagram? I'm familiar with it being said the Enneagram is quite spiritual, and even tentatively beyond cognition. Yet these sites may have research indicating that chemicals and motivations are connected. Can chemical processes alter motivations if motivations aren't quite observed the same as cognitive functions are?

    High or low levels of neurotransmitters may create dispositions that can be observed of a body, but I'm cautious about them becoming the building blocks of an Enneatype. I'm interested in the possibility of a connection, however. I'm, for now, inclined to think that the chemical connection between the brain and the Enneagram's realm is secondary to another phenomenon.

    If we consider just how a 4 works, I couldn't conclusively say, for instance, that 4s cross analyze their associations with their ideas of themselves as a result of limited access to certain neurotransmitters, or moderate access to another. I'm curious to know if the people they drew this potential conclusion from were accurately typed. I would love to intern for something like this. I'm glad that people with Ph.Ds and such are taking serious interest.

    I wonder if it's a possibility that the bodies of people with their respective Enneatypes naturally adapted to the Enneatype. Maybe the chemical processes just acclimated after the fact. Or, who knows? Maybe there is a genetic basis for the Enneagram that can be determined by neurotransmitters. I can't help but feel that misses something. That's what's exciting, I suppose.

  3. #3
    Unknown


    Same old thing. Still no evidence whatsoever.

    There is no science contained in this thread, merely speculation that goes wildly against the minimal success that legitimate neuroscience has had in finding the neural correlates of interindividual differences in personality.

  4. #4
    Type 4w3

    Yeah, I need to correct myself.They didnt find these patterns yet. They are only hypothesizing. It seems to me a very good hypothesis. I hope they will find an answer soon.

  5. #5
    Type 4w3

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    Same old thing. Still no evidence whatsoever.

    There is no science contained in this thread, merely speculation that goes wildly against the minimal success that legitimate neuroscience has had in finding the neural correlates of interindividual differences in personality.

    To their credit, observations through studies, and predictions, have everything to do with science. Unless by "science," you meant that the information given hasn't been verified yet (I don't mean to nit-pick. i just got thrown off by the no science part).

    On a more pressing note, by what you've said, legitimate neuroscience hasn't stated anything like this, which I'd suppose is because it hasn't approved use of the Enneagram. What are your sentiments on the potential of the articles' findings?

  6. #6
    Unknown


    Quote Originally Posted by Le9acyMuse View Post
    To their credit, observations through studies, and predictions, have everything to do with science. Unless by "science," you meant that the information given hasn't been verified yet (I don't mean to nit-pick. i just got thrown off by the no science part).
    That's exactly what I mean. There are no studies of any kind that have been done that verify this link between enneagram triads and neurotransmitter levels. The article describing this hypothesis has no references to any study, peer-reviewed or otherwise. At best it is "just an untested hypothesis." More realistically, it is a bad untested hypothesis.

    On a more pressing note, by what you've said, legitimate neuroscience hasn't stated anything like this, which I'd suppose is because it hasn't approved use of the Enneagram. What are your sentiments on the potential of the articles' findings?
    Let me correct you -- there are no "findings." There is no evidence for any findings. Find me a published study, and then I will speak about the implication of findings. There is no such study. Why the EI bothers to host content on their website claiming "the enneagram is verified by hard biological science! come look at our neat thing!" when in fact they know its total hogwash and they also know just how critically important it is in understanding the enneagram to recognize how fundamentally it is not practiced as science.

    There is nothing wrong with studying the enneagram, merely because it is the enneagram and not "vetted." I am all for studying the enneagram Let us say you gave people an enneagram test (there are many in the clinical world -- figuring out which one does a good job and then using that one is a really complex question which I'll punt on here by assuming you have a test instrument, which is how real world research would work anyway) and then gave people an MRI scan and investigated differences in some highly specific task. You may find differences that are significant in their neural activity. That would be really interesting work.

    You could also decide not to do a task-based study, but rather merely examine the neural activity across groups using some other measure. This is a more intuitively desirable approach but less promising, resting state studies are always harder. Ideally, you would use an intelligent method of looking at resting state activity such as seed-based connectivity. As a neuroscientist who studies resting state connectivity, it is my opinion that it would be very hard to find something that speaks to personality differences, but it is potentially possible if you were clever and used the right methods.

    Alternately, you could be Dario Nardi, and riddle your "studies" with methodological flaws so that they are meaningless.
    chimeric thanked this post.

  7. #7

    TYPE Serotonin Norepinepherine Dopamine
    Eight Low Low High
    Nine High Low Low
    One Neutral Low Neutral
    Two High Neutral Neutral
    Three Neutral Neutral High
    Four Low Neutral Low
    Five Neutral High Low
    Six Low High Neutral
    Seven High High High

    The neurochemistry of the five fits me to a tee. I have known for far longer that I my anxiety has been caused by an excess of the neurotransmitter, norepinephrine and my low energy from insufficient dopamine; than I knew what my enneatype was.
    P.S. How do I create paragraphs and double spaces?
    Last edited by Chesire Tower; 04-13-2013 at 01:44 PM.


 

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