[Reicheru]

Oh, of course not. People in power tend to be the ones to dictate what is seen as stylish or unstylish. I'm definitively positive that people dislike 'sagging' pants because of what it's associated with. When was the last time you heard about big money (not mainstream celebrities. they practically run on trendiness) doing anything that associated with "low class" stuff like "being ghetto," frequenting trailer parks or "destroying the English language" unless it was behind closed doors? How about driving a common vehicle? It's an image thing. Whatever the upper class/the power feels is right is usually what shapes society. Society is what tells us who we are, not ourselves. We didn't just decide to look down on particular things or activities. Big money probably don't wear hoodies, Henleys, Adidas and such much either. If it's associated with some stereotype, they likely won't touch it. What they see is what's spread in media and spread by word of mouth. Black people have more or less trademarked 'sagging,' and you know how history has gone for them. So, 'sagging' is seen as...

Basically, it's not about what the ones who aren't in power are doing. It's about what the ones in power aren't doing. That's why there's "proper English" or "high fashion." Or state-of-the-art blah blah blahda. Or even a "best way to wear clothes." You know none of this exists. It's perception and lies. Think of gold, the element. It's virtually useless. It's only "priceless" because it's scarce and people made it priceless. People have the power to morph a view into anything they please, so long as everyone else follows suit.

i can't say i follow that line of thinking even if others do, but then again, i'm not interested in what the rest of the world is up to most of the time - hence why i don't watch TV or buy magazines or anything. i've been called 'chavvy' before because although i come from a middle-class white British family, i really like hoodies and such, i just think they look nice even if people see me skulking down the street, hood up, and cross it immediately. society does not decide for me who i am, even if it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult for me to be myself and boy, does it - especially at uni!
re: black people have trademarked sagging... have they? it may just be that there's very few black people where i live and a lot of white chavs, but i wouldn't have made that particular link. bright colourful headphones & trainers maybe, but i wear them too. :P

i still dislike sagging, and ridiculously high heels and other bizarre clothing because they're just not useful if they make you trip and fall over, and i'm sure many people in higher powers wear high heels, but i still think them silly. if they're not functional, they're pretty much useless to me.

[Le9acyMuse]

i can't say i follow that line of thinking even if others do, but then again, i'm not interested in what the rest of the world is up to most of the time - hence why i don't watch TV or buy magazines or anything. i've been called 'chavvy' before because although i come from a middle-class white British family, i really like hoodies and such, i just think they look nice even if people see me skulking down the street, hood up, and cross it immediately. society does not decide for me who i am, even if it makes it a hell of a lot more difficult for me to be myself and boy, does it - especially at uni!
re: black people have trademarked sagging... have they? it may just be that there's very few black people where i live and a lot of white chavs, but i wouldn't have made that particular link. bright colourful headphones & trainers maybe, but i wear them too. :P

i still dislike sagging, and ridiculously high heels and other bizarre clothing because they're just not useful if they make you trip and fall over, and i'm sure many people in higher powers wear high heels, but i still think them silly. if they're not functional, they're pretty much useless to me.

Walls of text incoming.

It may be rude to insist that it's true that society has this power over us, but...it does. It's called socialization. You learn from people who were and are being raised in the same society. If you abide by norms (even just some), you have been socialized. If it's become natural to think one way and dislike another "dysfunctional," yet virtually harmless way because it's lesser in some way, you've been socialized. I'm a type 4, so it was weird for me to hear of this in the first place, too. I'm my own man, but I'm not immune - no-one is - to conformation in some regard, especially when it comes to being raised in a place with sweeping views like America. When you say "functional," are you saying it assists in doing something? It's just clothing. It's to keep you warm and/or cool. In fact, in the larger scheme of things, clothing is as useless as gold, or as television, or as war. It's man-made and man-fronted. At best, they're not always required to sustain one's life. Man just made their rules that you're following one way or another. No-one, and I mean no-one, is untouched by mainstream views, unless they've been majorly unsocialized. If you're not socialized, you probably wouldn't survive in society. You'd either get in too much trouble or you wouldn't be able to take care of yourself. Black people have trademarked the style in mainstream culture. I don't know if, when it originated in prison, it had its origins with Blacks there, but I wouldn't be overly surprised. It's just something that caught on, like any other style.

As far as aesthetics go, everyone has the liberty to express themselves (though limits are still imposed). You are free to like, dislike and protest anything, which you already know. But I think it wise to pay heed to the man (the power) behind the curtain pulling the strings. As people, we are naturally ignorant. Ignorance isn't the danger. It's when we get complacent and think that things are as they are for purely sensible reasons, and that it's pure common sense and rationality that we've chosen to commit ourselves to certain tendencies, forgetting that the same concepts have existed for millennia before our births, that we fall into a disagreeable rut. It's where you're with the 'us,' and the others are the 'them,' when we've only ever been 'we.' It's just distractions. Who cares about who's wearing what like that or this? Their attitudes are what need to be elevated, rather than their attire. It looks funny, sure, but only because we were made to feel a certain way about how to wear clothes. Rebellion ain't nothin' new. Sometimes people rebel for the right reasons, other times for the wrong. You rebel, I sure as hell rebel. If we leave it at that, we can focus on what really matters, like what 'sagging' represents, and why it's associated with what it is. For all we know it's a sign of interpersonal bankruptcy between certain peoples, despite its origins (most people probably don't know or care about it anyway). With that said, why suppress it? We should listen to our people, and we're all each other's people. If we can get that far, maybe we can do away with this fascination about who's doing something "wrong." Symbols (such as 'sagging,' unacceptance and proof of power) are rarely wrong. They're symptoms, and often warnings. When human behavior is dwelled upon, we don't see that. We're all ignorant by nature, and claim to know more than we really do. Humans will never stop having many behaviors, and we won't understand it by being disgusted with each other. But we may have the chance by paying attention to worldwide/cultural patterns, and less to ourselves individually. Because if you haven't noticed, we're all incredibly biased.

[Holgrave]

I find it humorous. If you ever watch Cops you can be sure there'll be at least one chase where the suspect's pants fall to his ankles.

I also find it aesthetically displeasing to see someone's underwear. I just keep hoping that it'll eventually go out of style. Until then, I'll get my laughs in. Or... <_< >_> you could always pants them.

[Reicheru]

Walls of text incoming.

It may be rude to insist that it's true that society has this power over us, but...it does. It's called socialization. You learn from people who were and are being raised in the same society. If you abide by norms (even just some), you have been socialized. If it's become natural to think one way and dislike another "dysfunctional," yet virtually harmless way because it's lesser in some way, you've been socialized. I'm a type 4, so it was weird for me to hear of this in the first place, too. I'm my own man, but I'm not immune - no-one is - to conformation in some regard, especially when it comes to being raised in a place with sweeping views like America. When you say "functional," are you saying it assists in doing something? It's just clothing. It's to keep you warm and/or cool. In fact, in the larger scheme of things, clothing is as useless as gold, or as television, or as war. It's man-made and man-fronted. At best, they're not always required to sustain one's life. Man just made their rules that you're following one way or another. No-one, and I mean no-one, is untouched by mainstream views, unless they've been majorly unsocialized. If you're not socialized, you probably wouldn't survive in society. You'd either get in too much trouble or you wouldn't be able to take care of yourself. Black people have trademarked the style in mainstream culture. I don't know if, when it originated in prison, it had its origins with Blacks there, but I wouldn't be overly surprised. It's just something that caught on, like any other style.

As far as aesthetics go, everyone has the liberty to express themselves (though limits are still imposed). You are free to like, dislike and protest anything, which you already know. But I think it wise to pay heed to the man (the power) behind the curtain pulling the strings. As people, we are naturally ignorant. Ignorance isn't the danger. It's when we get complacent and think that things are as they are for purely sensible reasons, and that it's pure common sense and rationality that we've chosen to commit ourselves to certain tendencies, forgetting that the same concepts have existed for millennia before our births, that we fall into a disagreeable rut. It's where you're with the 'us,' and the others are the 'them,' when we've only ever been 'we.' It's just distractions. Who cares about who's wearing what like that or this? Their attitudes are what need to be elevated, rather than their attire. It looks funny, sure, but only because we were made to feel a certain way about how to wear clothes. Rebellion ain't nothin' new. Sometimes people rebel for the right reasons, other times for the wrong. You rebel, I sure as hell rebel. If we leave it at that, we can focus on what really matters, like what 'sagging' represents, and why it's associated with what it is. For all we know it's a sign of interpersonal bankruptcy between certain peoples, despite its origins (most people probably don't know or care about it anyway). With that said, why suppress it? We should listen to our people, and we're all each other's people. If we can get that far, maybe we can do away with this fascination about who's doing something "wrong." Symbols (such as 'sagging,' unacceptance and proof of power) are rarely wrong. They're symptoms, and often warnings. When human behavior is dwelled upon, we don't see that. We're all ignorant by nature, and claim to know more than we really do. Humans will never stop having many behaviors, and we won't understand it by being disgusted with each other. But we may have the chance by paying attention to worldwide/cultural patterns, and less to ourselves individually. Because if you haven't noticed, we're all incredibly biased.

sorry, i'm gonna have to just skim your posts and say i'm very much aware of conformity, socialisation and so on and so forth - not least of which because i'm a psychology undergrad. i'm very aware of it, and i characteristically don't fit in with others because if i can't see a reason to do something, i won't, even if the 'cool kids' are - which, ironically, is also what saggers are doing. it works both ways. if anything, i'm an eccentric. i don't care. i like to think i'm more autonomous than ignorant. whilst i accept what you are saying that these manners of thinking exist, i'm saying that that's not the reason why i think sagging, in this particular case, is silly.

func·tion·al/ˈfəNGkSHənl/

Adjective:

Of or having a special activity, purpose, or task; relating to the way in which something works or operates. Designed to be practical and useful, rather than attractive.

i go by #2.

when i say functional, i mean it's not functional because they look like they're about to fall down at any given moment and if you'd run, they'd probably trip you up and i think you'll agree that's not very practical - it's only being worn for image ('attractive'). it's pretty linear common sense. it's got nothing to do with what society's beaten into me.