[spook]

ok disclaimer.. I don't think all SJs are like this, my parents are just anal retentive about order and need everything done the "right" way according to an exact schedule which obviously drives me crazy. My dad who's some sort of unhealthy ESxJ also has a volatile temper, and the only reason my mum who's probably an ISFJ stayed with him is bc her patience is a double edged sword, thinking she can change him by staying, thus remaining a miserable doormat for the rest of her life. She always makes excuses for him, like our business isn't going very well, and whenever he doesn't make money, he's inevitably going to be grumpy! Well gee, how am I supposed to react sympathetically, nice to be of service for letting you take it out on me every time that happens?

It seems all they ever do is criticise me for being lazy and incompetent, and this actually takes quite a toll on my self-esteem as much as I try to detach afterwards. Granted, sometimes I'm slacking on the household chores, I'm trying to put more effort in to get them off my back, but today after I forgot to take in the washing, my dad went off at me like you wouldn't imagine over something so petty! I never understood why parents feel the need to be so fussy over their kids' living space being a little messy.. they think sloppy organisation is a reflection on my whole competence and independence as a person. It's like the warped logic you hear about people who drop out of school/college being a reflection of their commitment in relationships, well my parents think no one could possibly respect me for living in my head and not being practical enough. They're even meticulous about clothes not being folded properly, like are you serious? You're going to unfold those clothes when you wear them!!! ARGH!!!!!!! (disgusted with myself for having such genes). I just calmed down from a huge screaming fight with them and although it would be ideal for me to move out, that option isn't practical as I'm still financially dependent on them. ): Any tips on how to cope? It seems the only compromise they'll except is ABIDE BY OUR RULES OR YOU ARE DISRESPECTFUL AND USELESS. </rant>



I'm also curious if you are an SJ, how well did you get along with your SJ and/or intuitive parents?

[Liminality]

Gahh, that sucks. I have an ISTJ dad who's just a tad into the whole a tidy room means the end of the universe thing, and certainly only seems to see the bad things. I'm lucky in having a developed, more laid back ISFJ mum, which helps alot as we can make fun of my dad's grumpiness, irrationality and strange interpretation of everything and it sort've is a way through to him - it's not nasty, it's just a way of showing him that he is a little crazy - he raises his voice about something rediculously insignificant, I go 'Oh MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE MUM?!', so he can sort've start to laugh at him self - after a fair bit of work, and a long period of time trying to feed him sense. Maybe be direct about it? Try and find someone who can back you up - not gang up on them, but act as sort of support for your case.

Another thing that helps is - this works well if either one has a very selective memory - seeing or remembering what they expect to remember generally - making it seem like something happened subtly, or lie with a straight face about something, that, to everyone else clearly didn't happen, and then letting them realise, and also see 'What would have been so awful if it HAD hapened? Would the world have instantly combusted? No, it wouldn't'. Spilt water, or lost sunglasses/sandals work for me, but it probably depends on the individual.


Another tactic I've used is to withdraw any affection - speak coldly, shortly, no eye contact, use grunts where possible - while doing what they want to the least enthused, despondent degree. But that works better with an introvert and just one crazy SJ parent, so I'm not sure how it would work for two, maybe just make things worse. Just something to ponder on. Finding a way of 'getting through', even if it's just communicating that you want nothing to do with the person they're being is sort've the way I've found.

[spook]

Yeah regarding the last paragraph, I do that a lot, pretty much stay in my room all day and act curtly pissed when they want me to do things but it makes things worse bc they think it is my duty to happily help out and be obedient to all instructions lol. It does become comical and silly once you take a few steps back... I don't have anyone to back me up though since even my older brother and sisters tend to lecture me on how I should love and respect my parents their way due to all the effort they've put into raising me. I totally get that but on the other hand it seems rather manipulative and fear/guilt driven in that you-would-be-dead-by-now-if-it-weren't-for-us kinda way. There's already an inherent power imbalance so no need to start acting like I asked to be born and looked after against anyone's will lol.

[Tucken]

I have an ENFP enneatype 4w3 mother and I get along with her well. Granted, I have a lot of patience and I could see how other SJs wouldn't be so understanding. She is very frustrating sometimes. What works for me is to be very clear (and innocent:P) when she's annoying in a way I can't accept. I accept she is who she is but that's her and I can't live my life that way.

So IMHO you're likely on one side of the scale and they are on the other. (At least from their POV, you might think you are "neat"). It's ridiculous to let these things get in the way of your relations so you have to do something about it! It's just a matter of perspectives.

Talk about these problems, lay them out on the table. It's so important to bring up the topic, it's really half the game! Basically be clear that you are you and have a different POV than they do. It won't change, you are different from them in certain ways and they must accept it. If they want something done their way, they must do it themselves, it's the only way.

Your parents believe this "neatness" to be the best way and they want the best for you. They may not understand or acknowledge other ways of living. Yet, that's what they have to do, I think. To always abide the parents rules doesn't work in a family.. My last idea is to put on cinderella and say you feel just like her :P Or something graphic like that, it's easier for your parents (anyone) to admit the stephmother (someone else) is bad than to admit they are.

Oh, and I have my issues with my SJ father. But he's a good father and I've never had much problems with his SJness though that's obviously because I'm the same. I wish you good luck and remember that for an SJ external order is very important. They feel very not in control(stressed) if they don't have it. Actually make a list with issues and talk all of them through, that ought to appeal to them!

[Frannyy]

My dad is an ISFJ and he's the same way- always criticizing me and such because i'm not 'perfect'

all you have to do is just blow up in their face one time and they will back off just let it all out how you are feeling and they will feel horrible and stop (at least that worked on my dad lol- it's actually the only thing that worked for him... I tried talkign to him about it first but he wouldnt listen)... usually with SJs if you blow up at them one time they will get it and stop if it is something they didnt realize they were doing




I always think SJ with SJ would be the worst matching.... I always feel sorry for the kids of those families!! I think one J and one P is a perfect balance... I could never be with another SJ

[Mina]

My dad who raised me is an ISTJ. He is the most wonderful, peaceful, and honest person ever. I seriously could not have asked for a better dad. He is very smart, dependable, and has a good sense of humor. He is so witty! Communication between us was never strong because he is not an open, easy to talk to kind of person. He is more on the quiet side and so am I (i'm very easy to talk to though), but he has always shown us he cares through other ways. Even though i'm a P, my J is very well developed because of my dad. Because of that chores and what not were never really an issue. It's an effort for me to be organized and tidy, it doesn't come natural.. but I have learned that life is a lot easier by being organized. It just feels good living in a clean organized environment, so I definitely put forth the effort and get it done. I'm not super anal about cleaning every little thing every single day, but I hate piles of anything anywhere. Cleaning and organization comes so natural to my dad. He actually enjoys it!

The biggest issue between my dad and I was/is probably me finishing college. I dislike school A LOT. My high school was huge and had sooo many students, it was very hard for me to learn in that kind of environment. It was never 1 on 1 and hardly ever hands on, except for Biology (my favorite subject). I also really hate how extremely structured school is. Instead of my dad understanding these and a few other school related issues, he looks at them like they are excuses. I started working the day after I turned 16 and I loved it, I have been working ever since. I graduated high school early and tried college, but I just can't finish it. My dad will still bring up going back to school. It kind of sucks because it makes me feel like my dad thinks less of me because of it. My brother just graduated with a PhD in May, which i'm extremely happy for him.. he worked a very long time for it and he totally deserves it. Now my dad brings up how if my brother was able to do 7 years I can at least do 4 years. The only difference is, the school environment is perfect for my brother. He enjoyed school so much!! He's the type that doesn't have to study for more than an hour and will get straight A's. Other than the whole school thing, the only time my dad and I bumped heads was when it came to my mom. Lonnng story so I won't get into that. I did go through a body piercing phase and wanted to start it off by getting my tongue and naval pierced when I was around 16 years old. My dad would only let me get as many piercings as I wanted to in my ears. It took me a verrrrrry long time to talk my dad into getting the other two. He said okay, but absolutely no piercings on the outside of my face other than my ears. hahaha. Which actually turned out to be a good thing, because I grew out of that phase years later and i'm happy I don't have a hole in my nose and holes under my lip. That was mostly him just being a dad though, I don't think it had much to do with being an ISTJ. He actually doesn't like tattoos or piercings on anybody though, so maybe it was a little of an ISTJ thing too. My friend who is an ISTJ HATES them too. So when I look back these were the only things that my dad and I ever really disagreed on.

We think very similar and have a lot of the same interests. I can count on my one hand how many times my dad and I have gotten into an argument, and the few arguments we did get into involved my mom. My dad and brother on the other hand.. a somewhat different story haha. I don't know my brothers personality type, I've tried typing him myself but he's one of the harder ones that I've tried to type. I have asked him to take it twice and he said no both times. But in a nutshell, that's pretty much how my dad and I have gotten along. I love him a lot.

[vel]

...They're even meticulous about clothes not being folded properly, like are you serious? You're going to unfold those clothes when you wear them!!! ARGH!!!!!!!

That sounds to me like a case of very hardcore case of J-ness.

Here is what I did to deal with mine:

1. Learned to go along half of the time, bullshit a quarter, and a quarter just plain refuse. Having a lot of homework helped, because I could usually tell them that I am busy doing it, when I was already done, and since performing well academically is a good thing that got me out of doing a lot of boring stuff.

2. Plan an exit strategy. Best way of finally resolving this problem is moving out and coming to visit them for periods no longer than 2 weeks. This will help you not only gain but also keep your sanity. In the end it is a good thing because otherwise we'd be sitting there dreaming forever. But SJ parents they teach us that we need to pay attention to reality - get a paying job and gtfo. Then you can continue daydreaming on your job

[Staryu]

My dad is an ISFJ and he's the same way- always criticizing me and such because i'm not 'perfect'

all you have to do is just blow up in their face one time and they will back off just let it all out how you are feeling and they will feel horrible and stop (at least that worked on my dad lol- it's actually the only thing that worked for him... I tried talkign to him about it first but he wouldnt listen)... usually with SJs if you blow up at them one time they will get it and stop if it is something they didnt realize they were doing




I always think SJ with SJ would be the worst matching.... I always feel sorry for the kids of those families!! I think one J and one P is a perfect balance... I could never be with another SJ

I'm INTJ..and both my parents are SJs. they're a bit rigid, too focussed on being "good conservative christians", completely anti-unconventionality(gasp!) etc..but i love them anyway growing up though, i did feel inadequate and stupid sometimes due to the constant lecturing of what i SHOULD do and how i SHOULD be and how a "good christian" SHOULD act *yawns*
as for SJ friends..i have friends that are ISTJ, ESTJ..and that's it for SJ. ESTJ is my best friend. i don't get all this SJ hate..they can be really nice and my friends accept me for who i am and DON'T lecture/criticize.they just tell me to calm down sometimes, which i can totally handle. besides, why would you not want a friend who is responsible, reliable, dependable, helpful..etc..?
there are unhealthy people of all types.
i think SJs are pretty misunderstood on this forum, tbh.

[niss]

You know this is so easy...do what they ask and they'll get off of your back.

Really.

SJs are some of the easiest people to please.

Or, continue to leave stuff undone and butt heads with them and complain about how they don't understand you.

[Staryu]

You know this is so easy...do what they ask and they'll get off of your back.

Really.

SJs are some of the easiest people to please.

Or, continue to leave stuff undone and butt heads with them and complain about how they don't understand you.

Fair enough, but I dislike following orders.