On Dating

I'm curious as to see if type has any correlation to how one sees dating, or just personal ways of looking at it.

I'm a female. As such, I've been hit on a few times in my life. I don't get it. I really don't. I cannot understand why you would approach someone with intention of getting into a romantic relationship with them. Anyone I've 'dated' always happens by accident, and I would never consider dating someone who wasn't a friend first. I feel like it's not something you can force, but develops naturally. I've only had two relationships in my life reach this point, the first was an immature high school sweetheart relationship that lasted 3 years and the second is just beginning to blossom.

It does sadden me when I get approached not as a fellow human, but as a female. I'm very defensive when someone starts a conversation because I honestly cannot distinguish friendliness from a come on. I hope I don't come across as conceited. I don't mean to make it sound like guys are falling all over me, but it does happen and I don't like it especially when I'm blind to it. I can't appreciate that sort of ulterior motive when making a new acquaintance. The only reason for the defense is due to a few bad experiences and really is just a personal response.

Also, I'm trying to even define what it means to date someone and if there is a difference between dating someone and a very good friend. The lines are fuzzy. I know it's really up to the people involved.

So, what does dating mean to you? How does a boy/girlfriend compare to a good friend? Do you prefer to date someone you just met or have known for a while? Any other thoughts on the subject?

Are you sure you are a feeler?

I will date people I just met or people I have known for years. I can't say any works better or not. The INFPs I dated were flirtatious in their own way. I would say one of them came onto me first.

Originally Posted by Psilo

I'm a female. As such, I've been hit on a few times in my life. I don't get it. I really don't. I cannot understand why you would approach someone with intention of getting into a romantic relationship with them. Anyone I've 'dated' always happens by accident, and I would never consider dating someone who wasn't a friend first.(...)

Interesting, you sound like an INTJ. Which means I agree with you there (in theory).

Originally Posted by TreeBob

Are you sure you are a feeler?

Haha, I knew somebody was gonna ask her that.

Anyways. About that topic.
Psilo, I have the same problem(s) you have. People would randomly hit on me (even girls. STRAIGHT girls <.<) and yeah, it is annoying sometimes. Mostly because the people hitting on me are just not interesting. I just hate people who try to hit on me by saying "You are the most beautiful girl I have ever seen". It's cheesy, it's cheap and there is things I care WAY MORE than hearing about my looks. If people hit on me because of looks, the first thing I will do is gonna shut'em out and go into defensive mode (Hehe, horray for introversion).
I guess, just like you, I want people to see me as a living being with skills, intellect and similar; and not just as a girl (which is mainly about the looks).

As for "what is better" (being friends first or just dating)...well, the friend thing is better, because you know the other person. But reality is, that often that doesn't happen. Love is just unpredictable.
Personally, I am okay with that. I learned to live with it. It CAN work out.

Somebody once told me that your boy/girlfriend IS a friend. It is *your best friend*; a friend you want to spend your life with. I thought that this was a very interesting statement. But then again, would one really risk to lose a *best friend* by going into a relationship with him/her? Personally, I am still not sure what to think about this statement. I mean it is kinda right; but then I automatically start to wonder why we would put that in danger. It's a paradox.
I kinda see my friends as my friends and family; and my boy/girlfriend as a *special person* or some sort of *intensive friendship*. But then again, this always worked for me, since I am very loyal and tend to ride relationships into the ground and fight for them.

Last but not least: I like TreeBobs answer.

Originally Posted by Psilo

I'm curious as to see if type has any correlation to how one sees dating, or just personal ways of looking at it.

I'm a female. As such, I've been hit on a few times in my life. I don't get it. I really don't. I cannot understand why you would approach someone with intention of getting into a romantic relationship with them. Anyone I've 'dated' always happens by accident, and I would never consider dating someone who wasn't a friend first. I feel like it's not something you can force, but develops naturally. I've only had two relationships in my life reach this point, the first was an immature high school sweetheart relationship that lasted 3 years and the second is just beginning to blossom.

It does sadden me when I get approached not as a fellow human, but as a female. I'm very defensive when someone starts a conversation because I honestly cannot distinguish friendliness from a come on. I hope I don't come across as conceited. I don't mean to make it sound like guys are falling all over me, but it does happen and I don't like it especially when I'm blind to it. I can't appreciate that sort of ulterior motive when making a new acquaintance. The only reason for the defense is due to a few bad experiences and really is just a personal response.

Also, I'm trying to even define what it means to date someone and if there is a difference between dating someone and a very good friend. The lines are fuzzy. I know it's really up to the people involved.

So, what does dating mean to you? How does a boy/girlfriend compare to a good friend? Do you prefer to date someone you just met or have known for a while? Any other thoughts on the subject?

I agree with you completely. If a male strikes right out of the gate with having ONE particular goal in mind (to pursue a romantic relationship),it instantaneously turns me off.In addition,if a male tries to go the friend route when in the back of his mind he is thinking... "Okay,I should try this...ask her what her hobbies are...yadda...yadda...then ask her if she has a boyfriend."...it feels too mechanical.I find myself attracted to guys who genuinely want to try the friend route for awhile without going for "the kill" in the initial stages of a budding friendship(or what I perceive to be a friendship.)As for dating,I'm not a big fan of dating(it means torture.)As stated previously,being friends with an individual then having him eventually notice his feelings for you is the route I have found to be advantageous.

The only people I am willing to date are ones that make me feel ultimately more complete than I do by myself, in a deeper more loving way than a simple friendship (which I feel as if just get along and encourage/accept how I do by myself, rather than complete it).

I can compare it to a yin-yang, what I'm going for. I'm the black areas. I need my white.

Originally Posted by JimmyCodes

I agree with you completely. If a male strikes right out of the gate with having ONE particular goal in mind (to pursue a romantic relationship),it instantaneously turns me off.In addition,if a male tries to go the friend route when in the back of his mind he is thinking... "Okay,I should try this...ask her what her hobbies are...yadda...yadda...then ask her if she has a boyfriend."...it feels too mechanical.I find myself attracted to guys who genuinely want to try the friend route for awhile without going for "the kill" in the initial stages of a budding friendship(or what I perceive to be a friendship.)As for dating,I'm not a big fan of dating(it means torture.)As stated previously,being friends with an individual then having him eventually notice his feelings for you is the route I have found to be advantageous.

I am making a sad face right now.

So you believe in the art of FATE dating? Sorry but there can't be too many guys out there that want to be friends first. The main reason for that would be they have a girlfriend or don't find you attractive. I don't come onto women with corny lines but I do try to get to know them. EVERYONE approaches the opposite sex if they are interested because of looks first (assuming they are looking to date). This isn't always a shallow thing either. What is it you expect us men to do? Looks for me are 25% of the relationship. The rest is pretty much personality. I see with my eyes though and if I am attracted then I am interested. It feels mechanical to you because it is awkward. How do you think most of the men feel? It isn't easy to come up to women even for an extreme extrovert like me.

I will stop for now cause I am sure I insulted people.

I would have to know the guy better to go out with him

Hm, since I posted that on a profile some minutes ago, and this thread is called "On Dating", I guess I can add this here, too.

I do understand where TreeBob is coming from with his comment. I am especially referring to this line:

How do you think most of the men feel? It isn't easy to come up to women even for an extreme extrovert like me.

Personally, I do find it is quite screwed for guys. I mean society expects them to "do the first step" and "having to take care of the girl" or "needing to pay for everything". Or in that special case "to walk up to the girl and ask her out" or so. It's not really fair. And it is a bit unfair if we girls complain about how they approach to master all this stuff; I must honestly admit. I mean I do see where both sides are coming from.

In my opinion, people should be a bit more flexible. We live in the 21st century and girls should probably come down from their "princess throne" a bit sometimes. Girls should be able to make the first step, too; especially if they are unhappy with the approaches of the guys so far.
No offense to anybody. Just saying to TRY seeing it from the other side, too.

Also, as I already said, this whole "being friends first" thing is a good plan; but it just fails too often. Attraction and love can be so *random*! And as much as we girls (or maybe INTJs and / or other types for that matter) would like a person to show interest and not focus on our looks; sometimes it is out of our hands. You can walk down a street and see a girl / guy that totally blows your mind, because you are so attracted to them for some reason and...what then? It's kinda hard to first take that friend-path. Controlling feelings is always hard. They ALWAYS manage to come to the surface SOMEhow. They are like water.
Long story short: a person can just TRY his / her best. Maybe we should judge the other person a bit less and try to see it from their perspective sometimes.

That said, I like both of the entries. JimmyCodes AND TreeBobs. Because, as many others, I have already been on both sides (the active AND the *passive*)

Hmm… interesting… Now sure of much of this is just me and how much is because I am an INFP male. I have never been one to blatantly hit on a woman and any more I think that has worked to my detriment. At the same time, I am astonished when I see other guys blatantly and very suggestively hit on girl but what I find the most astonishing is how women seem to respond positively it and apparently expected it.

What also confuses me is when I am honestly just trying to be friends or have a conversation with someone and I get accused of flirting when I really am just trying to be friendly.

One of my frustrations is I have a track record for becoming friends with a women and I think we are going slow but on a romantic path only for her to be all excited one day to tell me about some guy she just met. So for me, even though I honestly like the idea of being friends first, if I don’t make it clear fairly early on that ‘like, like’ a girl I tend to get left behind because she moves on to someone who is in to her that way.

The flip side is, I’ve also had it happen to where a girl has had to outright tell me she thought we had a thing going or that she wanted to ‘be’ with me and its caught me totally off guard. My immediate reaction is to try to figure out how I’ve been leading on and how to not hurt her feelings. If I was smart I would worry about those things at breakfast the next morning but I am not.

Now… I also understand that a women needs to feel an emotional connection with a guy before she can even consider being sexual with him and some guys just don’t get that at all and rush into things and that is why it does not work for them.

Psilo, as an INFP female, is it possible you need to feel the connection even more deeply than most? Perhaps that is why you are so sensitive to being hit on?

This might be an INFP (or an F) thing. I think as a guy I need to have deeper feelings about a girl to really be romantic with her than my non-F male friends seem to. I dunno again not sure how much is just me and how much is me being an INFP male.

Originally Posted by TreeBob

Sorry but there can't be too many guys out there that want to be friends first.

*Sigh* I may be one of them and that may be why so many INFP males never get married.

Originally Posted by TreeBob

… EVERYONE approaches the opposite sex if they are interested because of looks first (assuming they are looking to date). This isn't always a shallow thing either. What is it you expect us men to do? Looks for me are 25% of the relationship. The rest is pretty much personality.

I gotta go with TreeBob on this one, I might accept that men approach more based on looks than women do but never-the-less, what is so wrong with a guy noticing an attractive girl and telling her so. Yeah, I get it that if he is basically trying to turn her into a ‘free’ prostitute that is one thing and no one wants to feel used like that. But a part of how a guy is wired to so be very visual. So we think Hey, that girl is pretty. Maybe I should get to know her better so see if I would like her or not. Heaven forbid we be up front about it.

And honestly ladies… if you find a guy attractive and you are interested, don’t you like it when he notices you?

Originally Posted by TreeBob

I am making a sad face right now.

So you believe in the art of FATE dating? Sorry but there can't be too many guys out there that want to be friends first. The main reason for that would be they have a girlfriend or don't find you attractive. I don't come onto women with corny lines but I do try to get to know them. EVERYONE approaches the opposite sex if they are interested because of looks first (assuming they are looking to date). This isn't always a shallow thing either. What is it you expect us men to do? Looks for me are 25% of the relationship. The rest is pretty much personality. I see with my eyes though and if I am attracted then I am interested. It feels mechanical to you because it is awkward. How do you think most of the men feel? It isn't easy to come up to women even for an extreme extrovert like me.

I will stop for now cause I am sure I insulted people.

It is hard for someone to insult me.No worries.
I agree...it isn't easy for men.I should have clarified. I believe that you can't have a long lasting relationship unless they can be your best friend as well.So why not test the waters as friends and then gradually see if a romance can emerge? Yes, it does feel mechanical in a way partially because it is awkward.One reason why? On one hand it is hard for men considering the majority of men approach women first...but look at it from our view as well...you may not believe it...but I hate rejecting people who come right out the gate trying to pursue a relationship .Especially, if they are kind.Perhaps it is an INTJ habit,but I have a tendency to imagine the relationship in the future and conclude it would end in disaster ...so why waste our time? That is one major reason why pursuing the friend route for me is perfect...if it doesn't work out,remaining friends is an option.I know what you are thinking..."Initial lovers can remain friends"...but initial friends then lovers remaining friends in the end is a more feasible option.