The continuing adventures of me and my INTJ-related troubles

Alright, kids. I feel kind of weird posting a (formerly now, isn't it?) private conversation, but whatever. For those of you who are unaware of my troubles with a certain INTJ in my life, I can summarize. Long story short, I've had a thing for this guy for months and months, but the problem is that he's basically asexual. Philosophy and politics are his first loves. Tired of waiting, I did the bravest thing I could bring my little chicken-y self to do: I gave him a love note. (Oh, shush. It took me a while to even get to that point, so don't hate.) After little bit, he finally took an even more chicken-y route than I did (if that's even possible) and started an online chat with me in response.

Check it out:


INTJ
hey
do you think a piece of paper or a fb chat would be less awkward?

Me
Hmmm.
I think awkwardness is unavoidable.
Since we’re here, say what you must.

INTJ
....
first I felt rather insulted by the letter, or maybe you just think your friends keep secrets better than they really do
idk

Me
I thought as much.
You see, I kept saying, "Are you CERTAIN he's unaware?!" and they insisted. Aye...

INTJ
funny

Me
Not really. Ugh.

Me
Soooo...

INTJ
sorry, I'm minimizing the awkwardness by doing other things, anyway i don't exactly remember what you wrote and don't exactly know what you said but, uh, i don't know what to say.. couldn't senior year have just ended peacefully...i guess we all need some time in high school where we feel embarrassed and i guess this may be mine (at least for as long as this convo goes)
anyway...

Me
Out with it, already. Awkwardness is minimized by getting it over with.

INTJ
*(note: conditional statement and subject to change) I really don't have enough time or energy to do any sort of quote unquote relationship right now, and I really don't want one, either, but I am not really against whatever you said--coffee or lunch or whatever sometime
that's probably the easiest simplest way to put it

Me
Hummm.
Naturally this leaves me wanting to further interpret the implications.

INTJ
sure... well I really need to get going on hw so...

INTJ
though i think i'd rather not drag on awkwardness for longer time than necessary...
...
..

Me
Understandable.
I'd like a simple-ish answer, though. The fact of whether or not you want a relationship right now aside, how am I to interpret your apparent lack of opposition to some sort of outing?
That is to say, would it be out of some sort of interest or just sympathy? There's no need to spare my feelings.

INTJ
(sigh) idk (notice the emphasis by how long it took me to type this) ....I honestly don't think about any sort of relationship anything---it's not at all on my radar. I really don't think about these things. Call me immature or whathaveyou, but I don't think about this stuff. It wouldn't be out of sypathy but it wouldn't be out of like "liking" either.
call it "enjoyment of company" or something like that
idk.....

INTJ
in other words i have no idea what i think
you have to understand i don't do this sort of thing everyday

Me
I certainly understand, and I'm not going to criticize your lifestyle, or whatever you want to call it. What you do is up to you.

INTJ
thank you, and likewise

Me
Well, I won't keep you from your work any longer, but I admit that the ambiguity of your answers continues to baffle me. I suppose your "mystique" is part of your charm, but it's confusing nonetheless. If someday soon you have a clearer message for me, don't hesitate to let me know.

INTJ
i'd feel so terrible if i were any more ambiguous than reality, but i feel like i answered honestly to the best of my ability
goodnight


Seriously? What the heck, dude...

I'm tempted to interpret this all as a general lack of interest, but then I remember that this is no normal guy I'm dealing with. Whatcha think, honestly? Note that he's not lying when he says dating isn't on his radar. It's a well-known fact. I feel like he's just being nice on the one hand, but on the other hand I told him not to spare my feelings, and yet he still continues to be all ambiguous. Plus, this:


INTJ
*(note: conditional statement and subject to change) I really don't have enough time or energy to do any sort of quote unquote relationship right now, and I really don't want one, either, but I am not really against whatever you said--coffee or lunch or whatever sometime
that's probably the easiest simplest way to put it


I don't even know. "Conditional statement?" HAVE AN OPINION, DAMMIT!

I think I just need to start going for extroverted feelers and make my life less annoying...

My filter strongly suggests that he's not interested at all for whatever reason he's not telling you. But, I don't know, he's also more vague than I'd ever be in such a conversation.

I don't really know what it is you're looking for ... but as an INTJ, and someone who has been the cause of girls bawling their eyes out because I was approached in a very awkward manner, I'd like to weigh in.

First, do not approach INTJs in an awkward manner. Direct and to the point is how I think it is preferred. Especially if you're a stranger.

Second, INTJs are prone to egregious amounts of jackass-behavior when caught off-guard. This situation probably didn't warrant it and the guy is just kind of ... more directed in his interests.

However, from what he said at the end it seems like he really just wasn't sure what to make of your emotions. Either he was completely unclear on it, or simply has a set of expectations for the next several years of his life that you (or any other girl) just didn't fit in to. I don't think it's fair to call him "asexual" because he doesn't want a relationship. What he likely wants is to wait until he can have a real relationship and actually be able to take care of someone else/himself and be financially independent/older/wiser/whatever.

At the very end, however, it seems like he kind of woke up and was like "whoa, wait, this is a girl that is kinda into me. Hm." So he wants to keep his options open. Big deal.

This kid has plans to go somewhere. He has goals.

Check back with him in 5 years and maybe you two will be married. But don't take it out on him (or yourself0 if you two simply haven't gotten to a point where either of you are able to express oneself fully to the other (likely more a problem for him).

More than anything, it sounds like he's embarrassed you have a crush on him and he had to hear about it from one of your friends? It sounds like maybe he's shy and didn't like the he-she said approach? Either way, it sounds like he didn't like the indirect approach. On the plus side, he said he's not against having coffee or lunch with you, so maybe you should just enjoy his friendship and company and let the chips fall where they may. :)

Yeah, I don't think he's ruling out the possibility of a relationship, or at least an approximation of one, but reaching that point with him may require "warming up," which in and of itself could be something of a long haul.

Another thought that might be of use since I've seen ENFPs and INTJs described as being "inside out" versions of one another: when a person presents me with a possibility or opportunity that I hadn't previously considered, or that I historically had denied myself permission to investigate, I sometimes refuse or retreat from the offer initially, only to return shortly after, enthusiastic and eager to accept. Your next few interactions with him could be very telling of his actual intent.

Originally Posted by agokcen

I think I just need to start going for extroverted feelers and make my life less annoying...

Take a ride on the mushy side.

Several possibilities:

(1) He doesn't feel strongly about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(2) He doesn't know what he feels about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(3) He likes you but he's frightened of potential mushiness (both on his and your side)

When I was a teenager and an INTJ, I was frightened every time I found out someone had a crush on me (though it didn't happen all that much). I wasn't emotional. I didn't feel strongly about people. I was also grossed off by some of the mushy stuff people did when they were in luuuurve. I didn't understand feelings and I wasn't comfortable with them.

Whenever a guy told me he liked me, my first instinct was to run. I was stressed about the expectations the person could have of me. It's a constant stream of such thoughs: Am I expected to feel strongly about this person? Because I don't, I generally don't feel strongly about people. Do I have to do the mushy stuff with him? Eeeeew... I hope he won't go there. I hope he won't expect me to go there. I will sooo die if I have to be romantic to him and say all the "I love you". I will sooo die if I get teased by those bunch of idiots for this.

I don't know whether your INTJ friend is feeling the same way, agokcen. He handled the talk you two had badly for sure. But I don't see it as a "no" from him. When I was an INTJ, you couldn't force me to spend time with people I didn't like or felt uncomfortable with. Even as an INFJ now, I am the same.

MisterNi said it best- relax, enjoy him and let the chips fall into place. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you :)

Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.

Originally Posted by Spades

I don't really know what it is you're looking for ... but as an INTJ, and someone who has been the cause of girls bawling their eyes out because I was approached in a very awkward manner, I'd like to weigh in.

First, do not approach INTJs in an awkward manner. Direct and to the point is how I think it is preferred. Especially if you're a stranger.

Second, INTJs are prone to egregious amounts of jackass-behavior when caught off-guard. This situation probably didn't warrant it and the guy is just kind of ... more directed in his interests.

However, from what he said at the end it seems like he really just wasn't sure what to make of your emotions. Either he was completely unclear on it, or simply has a set of expectations for the next several years of his life that you (or any other girl) just didn't fit in to. I don't think it's fair to call him "asexual" because he doesn't want a relationship. What he likely wants is to wait until he can have a real relationship and actually be able to take care of someone else/himself and be financially independent/older/wiser/whatever.

At the very end, however, it seems like he kind of woke up and was like "whoa, wait, this is a girl that is kinda into me. Hm." So he wants to keep his options open. Big deal.

This kid has plans to go somewhere. He has goals.

Check back with him in 5 years and maybe you two will be married. But don't take it out on him (or yourself0 if you two simply haven't gotten to a point where either of you are able to express oneself fully to the other (likely more a problem for him).

*sigh* Avoiding awkwardness is the reason I waited so long to talk to him about it in the first place. A note was the least awkward way I could possibly think of to tell him. Also, I'm really not blaming him for anything, but it's just plain frustrating to get such an ambiguous answer. Saying "I don't know" a million times doesn't really help anyone, you know?

Originally Posted by MisterNi

More than anything, it sounds like he's embarrassed you have a crush on him and he had to hear about it from one of your friends? It sounds like maybe he's shy and didn't like the he-she said approach? Either way, it sounds like he didn't like the indirect approach. On the plus side, he said he's not against having coffee or lunch with you, so maybe you should just enjoy his friendship and company and let the chips fall where they may. :)

Honestly, I didn't try to use the he-said-she-said approach, but unfortunately it still happened, apparently. Stupid "friends." You think I should still hang out with him sometime, then?

Originally Posted by Robatix

Another thought that might be of use since I've seen ENFPs and INTJs described as being "inside out" versions of one another: when a person presents me with a possibility or opportunity that I hadn't previously considered, or that I historically had denied myself permission to investigate, I sometimes refuse or retreat from the offer initially, only to return shortly after, enthusiastic and eager to accept. Your next few interactions with him could be very telling of his actual intent.

That's actually excellent advice. One of my friends is dating his brother (the two are very similar) and gave me advice not unlike yours.

Take a ride on the mushy side.

Am I to take this as a "yes" to my marriage proposal?

Originally Posted by Rouge

Several possibilities:

(1) He doesn't feel strongly about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(2) He doesn't know what he feels about you but he likes you enough to hang out
(3) He likes you but he's frightened of potential mushiness (both on his and your side)

When I was a teenager and an INTJ, I was frightened every time I found out someone had a crush on me (though it didn't happen all that much). I wasn't emotional. I didn't feel strongly about people. I was also grossed off by some of the mushy stuff people did when they were in luuuurve. I didn't understand feelings and I wasn't comfortable with them.

Whenever a guy told me he liked me, my first instinct was to run. I was stressed about the expectations the person could have of me. It's a constant stream of such thoughs: Am I expected to feel strongly about this person? Because I don't, I generally don't feel strongly about people. Do I have to do the mushy stuff with him? Eeeeew... I hope he won't go there. I hope he won't expect me to go there. I will sooo die if I have to be romantic to him and say all the "I love you". I will sooo die if I get teased by those bunch of idiots for this.

I don't know whether your INTJ friend is feeling the same way, agokcen. He handled the talk you two had badly for sure. But I don't see it as a "no" from him. When I was an INTJ, you couldn't force me to spend time with people I didn't like or felt uncomfortable with. Even as an INFJ now, I am the same.

MisterNi said it best- relax, enjoy him and let the chips fall into place. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you :)

Thank you for this! Are you, too, saying that I should go ahead and hang out with him sometime?

I suppose, if I'm able to get some one-on-one time with him, I am pretty irresistible...

Originally Posted by Thorgar

Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.

Actually, this is a possibility that I can't rule out.

Originally Posted by Thorgar

Hmmm...I used to treat girls like that, but not because I was INTJ or asexual. It was because I was a closet case.

I had the exact same thought. I guess there might be other reasons why he doesn't date, but I'd be willing to bet $20 he's just not into women.

Whatever his reasons, I have to be honest and say that I think he made it pretty clear that he's not interested. If he changes his mind then I'm sure he'll let you know. :)