Confused about a date (IXFP)

Well, this is going to be a comeback, haven't posted on here for a while, only been lurking around. So I've never posted anything very personal on this board, but yeah might give it a shot this time.

I would like to hear your opinion on my experiences with this girl I first met in October. She initiated contact with me via last.fm in August, she's from Latvia and has the same interest in music which surprised her because it's kind of obscure. She was about to move to Amsterdam to study the arts at the art academy and wanted to find a place to live. I found that to be interesting because I'm also studying the arts. I gave her all the possibilities I knew and we messaged a couple of times. She wanted to know places where you could go out, I gave her that and information about what I was going to do next year. I gave her my phonenumber in case she couldn't find a place to stay. In the end she moved into a squat because she knew another latvian girl who lived there for the moment.

When she got here she told me she got a mobile phone and we texted a bit. There was a good concert, the mountain goats were playing early october and I asked if she wanted to go there with me. She said yes, so we first met. My first impression was not very good, she had a weak way of shaking hands, looked tired and started talking about herself without showing too much interest. When we got to the place, it was sold out but in the end, and I think it was because I was looking so sad that the caissiere and manager of the place sold us tickets for a different gig and let us in to see what we came to see. Music was great, after it we stayed a bit, drank a beer, talked about food and about a project I was working on. The place was closing down so we went out and went to a bar. She talked a lot about her life in Latvia, and I was a bit worried that I didn't talk as much. She could read it on my face or somehow acknowleged it and asked if I could tell anything about myself. I was not very comfortable anymore and didn't really know where to start talking, too much random stuff going on in my head she probably would think of as awkward and laughed it off a bit saying it doesn't work like that. Then somehow we got into an engaging conversation and we managed to talk for about another 3 hours. In the end we didn't know what to say anymore and we looked at eachother and started laughing. We took the tram, departed and I was about to shake her hand and she was like "oh come on!" and gave me a big hug. I pretty much got the idea she was ESFP and I didn't feel this could work out very well, I was very much doubting us, although I had really good time.

So I kept my options open, and we thanked eachother for the night. We texted and later on I asked if she had any time to meet up, she was at her acadamy, she had fine arts lessons, but it was no problem to come over. She asked if I could bring some food for her because she was very hungry and so I did. When we left we had to take the metro and I realized I had two travelling cards, so I gave one to her so she could use the metro for free for the rest of the year. She said I was her superhero for the day and we laughed about it. After the second time we met I was pretty sure she was not extraverted but actually introverted, somehow she was very open to me from the beginning and she loved seeing me again. She was interested in philosophy and read Kafka and loved Haruki Murakami and then I thought she might even be INFP. But I still get the idea she is very much ISFP. She is not as interested and curious as I am. Not sure if she fits it, of course the 16 types doesn't include all people. She loves cats, is a vegetarian, she is very much in tune with her senses, often stays up until very late at night, I have the idea she neglects her own body, smokes a lot, childlike.

I helped her moving out from her squat to her new room. We met again at the bar and she showed me pictures of her hitchhiking through Iceland and to Ukraine which I loved, she sent pictures of her exposition and I shared some of mine. We went for some errands the day before her exposition and I helped a little bit with her sculpture, we watched couple of movies, heima, american beauty and so on. She was showing me a book she finished for the expo and I was telling her that it was amazing and I wanted to add "you're amazing as well" and give her a big kiss. I didn't. I've always been sceptical about us becoming more than just friends but every time before seeing her I get an aching stomach and my heart beats louder and harder than ever. It's very hard for me to initiate a kiss without knowing what goes on in her head.

Then she moved again, but close to where she lived before. Two weeks ago there we met, she smiled, gave me a hug, took me by my hand across the street, it felt like being in love. I was free the whole week and I helped her and two other girls whom she was working with on a stop motion movie for three days. It was lots of work, I edited and photoshopped. They were all very thankful saying I was their lifesaver. I stayed with her for the second night. She was on skype for about 4 hours at night with her best friend she didn't talk with for about 4 months. I also engaged in conversation a bit. We spend the evening on the couch, from start we've been phycically intimate but not sexually. First time that year it started to snow which was awesome. At 5am we finally went to to sleep, we were both very tired, we shared a single bed. We woke up at noon, I gave her a kiss on the cheek in the morning just to give her a sign that I like her. She was also learning me Latvian language about a week earlier during a lecture at her acadamy and she was writing down, You = Tu, when she asked me "What do you want to know?" I wanted to know how to say "I like" things. So she wrote it down and she said you could put anything after "I like" in Latvian and I said "Tu". Our heads were not 5 centimeters away from eachother and she smiled at me but she never gave me any hint of how she really feels, not with words, not with her actions. I know I'm bad at expressing my emotions but she is as well. Most of the times, or maybe even better 'all the time' I'm the one initiating contact and she always likes me to come along.

I'm pretty much getting the idea she likes me because I help her out so much, I like understanding and helping people but I don't want people to use me. I want to know what she feels and if she likes me, but I get mixed feelings from her, she has a wall around her. We are both passive, but does she want me to be just her friend, doesn't she get my hints? Why doesn't she open up a little just to let me know where I stand? Would she be thinking the same about me I wonder. It's developing a bit too slowly for me.

Any advice, comments, opinions or questions are welcome.

Wow that was a long tough read.

I'd say she wants you to be more assertive. I'd also say you missed your window, and now your in the friend zone.

What I believe you should be asking yourself is this. Is it worth risking your friendship to get something more?

Basically you can open up to her and see what she says. I would say your chance of her being receiptive is about 10%. (Just my opinion of course) I hope I'm wrong, and wish you the best of luck in whatever you choose.

Thanks so much for reading all that and thanks for your post. It's really helpful hearing someone elses opinion.
I wanted to write down as much as possible to get you the best idea of the situation. I'm sorry about all the details, some are probably unnessecary.

It's kinda funny though, because at first I was very much doubting her. I thought she actually liked me because she was texting me all the time and I was fantasizing about me having to dissapoint her. How ironic.

She grew on me because we were seeing eachother so much and she quickly became my closest female friend. My feelings for her grew as well although I'm still not sure if we are eachothers soulmates. Having doubt about being in love shows you're not really in love, right? Maybe I'm somehow holding back my feelings because I don't want unrequited love. Or maybe I want it to be a fairytale and now it's not. At the same time, "doubt can only be removed by action". I think I have to slightly open up to her without being too obvious. Or ask what she thinks about me, which would be a pretty awkward question if asked directly. Difficult but I might have to give it a try in some way or another.

Oops, another bulk of text, sorry.

I don't know how much you know about Dom and sub behavior.

Here's my opinion on how things went, when look threw the eyes of Dominance and Submissive. When she first went out on a date with you she was nerious and unsure(sub) and you didn't find her attractive. Threw the date the two of you found out that you understood each other. At the end of the date her nerviousness had passed. When you showed insecurity(sub) by offering a handshake when there "should" have been a kiss she reassured you she was interested by giving you a hug. (more physical than a handshake but not intimate like a kiss) This still gives you the option to kiss her but you didn't take it, so she prolly felt rejected. (She felt like she put herself out there and you didn't respond) As the two of you interacted more you didn't discuss relationships you just "let things happen". Basically you were both waiting for the other to take charge. Over time around you she quit being nervous and began to see the nervousness/shyness(sub) in you. I believe the social term women use is "harmless", meaning that your safe, and not going to pressure them into sex. It also means they are going to think less of you. Some of the meaner women would use terms like wussy, push over, or spineless. It's not true, but our society expects Dominant behavior in males. (this is changing slowly) Everyone is different, and some people are going to like to run around with their chests puffed out and some aren't. I don't think less of a guy when he's not an aggressive alpha male type. I understand there are aggressive females who look for non-aggressive males. I'm rambling now though. hehe

After you've been around her for so long you've devoloped a sense that she's rejected you, and a fear that she will reject you. This puts her in a Dom role even if she's not a Dom person because it puts her in control of your life. Having her in that role without actually open discussion with her isn't fair. If she doesn't accept you as HER sub then she is not YOUR Dom. The relationship needs to be both mutual and concenting. It's my opinion you care for the fantasy of her, not the reality. Until the two of you have an open a frank discussion about your feelings Babbling, you really have no clue who she is.

I have to say you are very accurate in your perceptions and I can very much agree with all you said, the Dom and Sub were also helpful understanding. You hit it on the right spot.

Originally Posted by Coveny

It's my opinion you care for the fantasy of her, not the reality.

This struck a chord. I had the intention not to have any expectations, or take her in my fantasy world and put her on a pedestal. I still have idealistic and romantic ideas about life and love and I think she didn't immediately live up to my expectations. Expectations, every person has them and even if you try to hide it from your consciousness, they are there.

I didn't take the opportunity. My indecisiveness killed it. Now I'm paying for it. I have to sort out my feelings and I have to discuss it with her.

Thanks again for your insight.

Your welcome. Let me know how things turn out.

heyz,

First of all, what's done is done. I know you're a pretty artistic and sometimes complicated guy, but I think in this case it's pretty simple

You think you might like this girl, so it's important to find out what she wants out of your relationship. Cause else you'll never know or get to chance to find out about how you really feel about her and if the relationship could work, and perhaps be more than a little fun.

Perhaps creating a romantic environment and make your intentions clear (with words if she does nog understand your hints..) I'm not telling you to kiss her right a way, but you can tell her you like her, if she doesn't get the hint, tell her you really like and not in a friend way, see how she reacts
I think the time for hints is over, you've had so many dates or sort of dates you need some clearety.

anyway that's what I think you should do, remember to give her some hints before your date, sow your message won't come out of the blue, you don't want her to feel trapped and of her guard or something, she needs to feel something is coming ;)

right that's all the "wisdom" I've got for now,
Speak to you later, W.

Greetz E

Just kiss her when she is not expecting it, see how she reacts. Men do this to me constantly and I hate it :( girls like to be liked. And in her mind if you liked her, you would have already kissed her. So if you didnt, it means you dont like her enough. Girls want the romance, the danger, the unexpected. Someone who tells you to put your shoes on cause you are going on an adventure. I dont know. By being there and doing nothing you are telling her there is nothing there for her. :(

If you kiss her and she doesnt like it, then at least you tried. You wont be fostering doubts any longer.

Sounds like she likes you, dufass!
(that's meant to be funny)

A woman doesn't hold hands with a guy, hang out with him all the time, sleep next to him if she isn't interested!!!
She's waiting for YOU to make a move.
In fact, look around this site, there's probably a tread she started titled: "Why doesn't this guy just kiss me already?!?!
There's my two cents.

Originally Posted by amanda32

Sounds like she likes you, dufass!
(that's meant to be funny)

A woman doesn't hold hands with a guy, hang out with him all the time, sleep next to him if she isn't interested!!!
She's waiting for YOU to make a move.
In fact, look around this site, there's probably a tread she started titled: "Why doesn't this guy just kiss me already?!?!
There's my two cents.

I would have to agree, There's all kind of ways you could spark the first kiss or even the conversation. You are artist so use some creativity and get it over with. If she doesn't want to date you then you can still be friends, Better act now though not all girls will wait forever eventually they just move on and by then its way to late for you to get her back.