[ozu]

I'm in the mood to hate on something and this is an issue I've been trying to articulate for quite a while now.

---> How well do questions as limited as "Justice or mercy?" or "Do you feel there is good and evil in the world?" really serve to zero in on one's Jungian disposition? With Cognitive Function tests especially I've had to more than once mark questions based on what I think the wording is supposed to get at, rather than based on the idea it literally communicates. So lame. I think I am like. Legit angry about this lol.



---> Is it possible to construct a better free/online test? And if so, what format would/does it take? A buddy of mine and I were thinking of a choose-your-own-adventure rpg style quiz. Late at night when drunk but idk... might work

---> Have you guys come across (or conceived of) any plausibly relevant tests/questions? Or dumb ones? You can post some dumb ones too haha

[OrangeAppled]

I'm in the mood to hate on something and this is an issue I've been trying to articulate for quite a while now.

---> How well do questions as limited as "Justice or mercy?" or "Do you feel there is good and evil in the world?" really serve to zero in on one's Jungian disposition? With Cognitive Function tests especially I've had to more than once mark questions based on what I think the wording is supposed to get at, rather than based on the idea it literally communicates. So lame. I think I am like. Legit angry about this lol.

I agree...the tests use too many stereotypes & don't really get at the basic mindset of each type.

---> Is it possible to construct a better free/online test? And if so, what format would/does it take? A buddy of mine and I were thinking of a choose-your-own-adventure rpg style quiz. Late at night when drunk but idk... might work

I definitely think it's possible, but you have to get away from the usual questions, and many times, when people make tests, they use an existing one as a sort of model & so much of the same crap gets repeated.

I'm not sure what a better format would be, but less false dichotomies, and more than 2 answers for each question. At least 4 answers per quesiton seems good (ie. on judging questions, providing an answer to suit each of the Te, Ti, Fe & Fi mindsets). Tests which let you answer in varying degrees (ie. 5= a lot, and 1=not at all) usually give better results also. And definitely a focus on thinking patterns and not stereotypical behaviors. Avoiding the oversimplification trap by using vague layman's terms (ie. making feelings sound like emotion, referring to it as the "heart") would help also.

---> Have you guys come across (or conceived of) any plausibly relevant tests/questions? Or dumb ones? You can post some dumb ones too haha

I've come across a few good questions. I like some of the "questions" on this test, and the format of being able to choose to a varying degree between two statements, instead of forcing one answer:
Team Technology: Personality Type Questionnaire

It still pits two things as opposite that may not be, but the varying degree answer format helps alleviate some of the problems that causes as far as accuracy goes, IMO.

One of the worst questions I've seen is one which asked if you identify with soap opera characters; obviously, the yes answer is supposed to be "F", but it's insulting to Feelers to suggest we all watch & get weepy over soap operas. I understand what the question is getting at - do you empathize with fictional characters? But it seemed needlessly condescending to word it in terms of something largely regarded as silly & sentimental. There are many others along the same lines which make Feeling out to be sappy & nonsensical.

I know some Thinkers, who consider themselves as nice & friendly people, resent when questions imply they are cold & robotic. So I think reducing people to caricatures has gotta go.

[Wallmaster]

A buddy of mine and I were thinking of a choose-your-own-adventure rpg style quiz. Late at night when drunk but idk... might work

This sounds like an excellent idea.

And yes, no more layman terminology. And no recycling questions from every other test. Usually there's a bias, typically making 'N' and 'T' answers more appealing. This is where the "NT master race" idea comes from...maybe.

[Arclight]

I think part of the problem is in how the questions are asked.
They most often are asked in the present tense.
This then, naturally evokes a present response.

However how we are feeling and perceiving right now is only one scene, in an act, of a chapter in the most grand of plays, that is our lives.

Consider if you have recently broken up. You are likely to be hurt, over sensitive, your self esteem is likely to fluctuate,your are likely to feel cynical and jaded.
All of this is temporary and could cloud your own self perception.

An at least partial solution is clearly available, at least to me,and that is.. Asking the questions in the past tense.
For example; "You value justice higher than mercy" would then become "You have always valued justice over mercy"

Now I am thinking back on my whole life as I answer, not just my present state of being. What is different about now compared to most of my life and, is this present time, typical to my normal tendencies?

We are in flux.. The idea is to search for tendencies, or as Jung himself applied, "Type" was used in reference to "Typical".
SO what is typical of you?

Just an idea.

[susurration]

Tests suck because the majority of people do not have a clue about psychometrics and what it means to make a valid or reliable test. Average people are making these tests, not those with insight into statistics or how to make a good test and to test the test for validity.

The best mbti one i've seen is probably: mbti

Oh and Functianalyst advocated for the 'best fit type' process, which is basically a way to evaluate "test results" i.e. evaluate your type and I thought that was really useful too (for me). Interaction style helped me solidify and nail down some things about myself: What is Best-Fit Type?

These are my views on the functions tests:

Especially a quiz that places all the functional attitudes against each other equally.

I don't agree with the notion of testing attitudes because I think they are entirely qualitative (not suited to be tested via quiz), but I think tests where every function is just compared to each one is just confusing for people. They'll get results of all manner - e.g. ne > ni > fe> Fi > si > se > te > ti and believe firstly that their preferences are whacked out as the test tells them, and then they believe functions are about strengths.

I'm not sure why these quiz makers don't construct questions where you have to select an option out of 'opposing function sets' for example, Si/Ne ------------- Se/Ni and then breaking it down to Si-------- Ne and Se-------- Ni. So you are forced to indicate your preference for one over the other. It turns it into an mbti like dichotomy quiz, but I think there is a good reason why the mbti is a set up that way. I.e. so people don't end up with results like the "functions tests" indicate that sometimes tell you -nothing- significant at all.

If these tests are going to exist at all..
I think the questions really need to be refined to only target the core complexes (not random questions about assorted behaviours that have varying degree of relevance). They have to be worded as worldviews or schemas, and not behaviours or skills, have to place opposing ideologies against each other, not put words into peoples mouths (someone might score high on Si in a test, but read Jungs description and find it completely foreign).

[dagnytaggart]

That's why you have to take the real test. Let's not forget about biases...all the S (especially Si) answers are made out to be so lame/unglamorous/extreme. Same with E vs I. They tend to make E's sound like needy party animals.

Also, I think tertiary loops are a lot more common than realized. I have ADHD, so I'm always in a Te-Ne loop.

[OrangeAppled]

These are my views on the functions tests:

I'm not sure why these quiz makers don't construct questions where you have to select an option out of 'opposing function sets' for example, Si/Ne ------------- Se/Ni and then breaking it down to Si-------- Ne and Se-------- Ni. So you are forced to indicate your preference for one over the other. It turns it into an mbti like dichotomy quiz, but I think there is a good reason why the mbti is a set up that way. I.e. so people don't end up with results like the "functions tests" indicate that sometimes tell you -nothing- significant at all.

I agree with you about the flaws in function tests.....however, I have seen many Socionics tests arranged in this way you suggest, and I will explain a possible problem with that approach using my experience as an illustration.

A question will have 2 possible answers: Si/Ne or Se/Ni
The Ne part of the Ne/Si option often suits me best, but I HATE the Si part. This is because Si is the true opposite of Ne, not Se or Ni. Being my tertiary relief, Si thinking strikes me as dull, and anything seen as dull repulses Ne thinking.

The Se/Ni answer will not fit as well as Ne, but it doesn't offend me as much as the Si part, so I often choose it. The Pe & N aspects of the Se/Ni answer will just appeal to me more than the Si answer ever could. I won't react to them as strongly as I do Ne/Si though, which is interesting*....

The same thing happens with the Fi/Te & Fe/Ti answers - I sometimes choose the Fe/Ti answers because the Te part rubs me the wrong way. This happens less often though, as the Fi answer is often too tempting, being my dominant, and Fe can rub me just as wrong as Te (maybe because it's Je, opposite of my preferred Ji).

The bottom line is, I'll usually test as INFJ (or INFp in socionics - NiFe).

The reason for this, IMO, is that people often have an aversion to their tertiary & inferior functions, as they represent "opposites" of their preferred mindset (the dom & aux). Even if a person does use them to some extent, when they see them outside of themselves (in other people, or described in a test in this case), it rubs them the wrong way. I think EricB's recent function order thread (harmonizing Beebe's & Thompson's theories) explains why that is very well.

* I suppose if you asked in the question which set a person reacts more strongly to (not necessarily positively), then you might get them to choose the "right" set, but that might be overly complicated still, not working for many people who don't have strong visceral reactions.

[ozu]

That's why you have to take the real test. Let's not forget about biases...all the S (especially Si) answers are made out to be so lame/unglamorous/extreme. Same with E vs I. They tend to make E's sound like needy party animals.

Also, I think tertiary loops are a lot more common than realized. I have ADHD, so I'm always in a Te-Ne loop.

Can you describe what the Te-Ne loop experience is like, for you? I find myself in Ne-Te loops super frequently, I suspect....

[Neon Knight]

I think part of the problem is in how the questions are asked.
They most often are asked in the present tense.
This then, naturally evokes a present response.

However how we are feeling and perceiving right now is only one scene, in an act, of a chapter in the most grand of plays, that is our lives.

Consider if you have recently broken up. You are likely to be hurt, over sensitive, your self esteem is likely to fluctuate,your are likely to feel cynical and jaded.
All of this is temporary and could cloud your own self perception.

An at least partial solution is clearly available, at least to me,and that is.. Asking the questions in the past tense.
For example; "You value justice higher than mercy" would then become "You have always valued justice over mercy"

Now I am thinking back on my whole life as I answer, not just my present state of being. What is different about now compared to most of my life and, is this present time, typical to my normal tendencies?

We are in flux.. The idea is to search for tendencies, or as Jung himself applied, "Type" was used in reference to "Typical".
SO what is typical of you?

Just an idea.

It seems like a negative for the questions to be in present tense but if they weren't you couldn't catch things like natural development otherwise. It's a tricky thing I guess. Questions should be present oriented more but maybe before taking the quizzes
there could be a disclaimer or something like one saying, if you're in a stressful period answer questions based on what you normally would do. The Enneagram test in the Riso-Husdon book focuses on past self to get to your basic motivations and fears I think, but that is necessary for that sort of test. When you initially do it that is. When you retest same questions at different times in your life you still catch the growth (and declines). Cog Functions seems to be more consistent since if you read about them enough, you'll find out about things like grip experiences and what happens when you have tertiary development, important things like that and the tests can actually reflect those things. My two cents.

Incidentally I'd play that RPG :)

[dagnytaggart]

Can you describe what the Te-Ne loop experience is like, for you? I find myself in Ne-Te loops super frequently, I suspect....

Basically, it's that I'm quite goal/action oriented and I'm always shooting for maximum efficiency when it comes to accomplishing things. But unlike most ESTJs, my default mindset is headed on the future - never the past.

To me, 99% of the past is moot - except for very major lessons learned from major mistakes. And that's more conceptual than concrete. (ie, "partnership invariably involves power struggle" not "OMFG this EXACT method worked when I was 3 years old, I HAVE TO STICK WITH IT TO THE LETTER.")

And when I'm faced with some new possible way of dealing with something, I don't really care if it's been done before. If it checks out a-ok according to my criteria, it gets the green light.

I'm also VERY impatient with mundane routine/details. Don't have a great eye for them either....if there's a cranberry on the carpet, I'll easily walk by without noticing it. xD

Hope that helped - do you relate to any of this?