[ClarifiedMind]

Say if a person has issues with alcohol and is venting about it I'm all ears. I'm able to offer advice, tell them what I did to stop, etc. If the person is close to me I'll carry with it for a while because I can feel what they're going through. Like today a friend told me some bad news. I didn't go through exactly what she went through I dealt with something similar. Her situation is still bugging me and what's worse I can't help her in the way I would like.



But if a friend's dog died and they are an emotional mess I've got nothing-can't even pretend (well I'll try but it's pathetic). Significant other dogging you out and treating you bad? I can't feel sorry for you. Rabbits ate all the spinach in your garden and you killed your rose bush with too much fertilizer? We'll sit and cry together.

Why can I empathize but not sympathize? I figured if I could do one I could do the other but it's damned near impossible for me to be sympathetic.

Any insight?

[DJArendee]

have you read my blog?

[Zibb]

Isn't that a clear case of inferior Fe? They are dealing with problems that involved emotional investment from them. Those other issues can be dealt with more logically and we are quick to understand the details of something we've already experienced.

[DJArendee]

well anyway whether or not you did read it: Fi = sympathy, Fe = Empathy. No Fi, no sympathy. The end.

[indignation]

Wow, I got the same problem - ill listen and I can place myself in their shoes but unless I have some helpful insight I just won't care and can only react halfheartedly

[snail]

The way I do it is to imagine what it would feel like to be in the situation the other person is describing. Today I felt emotionally connected to someone while watching his youtube video trashing my religion, and it was because he made it so easy to get into his head and heart. I really felt like I understood why he was so antagonistic, and how hurt he was on a personal level by the evils he felt we had committed against him. It was strange, because even though I have never experienced that exact situation, I was able to imagine it from his perspective, and I was able to make mental references to times when I had feelings that were sort of related, while experiencing different things. I found myself suddenly transported out of my own perspective and into his.

When it happens, it isn't always intentional. Sometimes I can want to feel something, and won't be able to, like when a person is feeling upset because of the consequence of having made an immoral decision that makes me see that person as more of a perpetrator than a victim. My ability to empathize is almost entirely dependent on seeing the other person as someone vulnerable who has been more harmed than harmful. This can make it impossible for me to feel anything for people who try to seem strong all of the time, or who think of suffering as weak.

[DustyDrill]

The ENFJ I was dating recently chewed me out for not giving a shit about other peoples' problems. I have since stopped talking to her. Sorry, can't change how my brain works, peace out!

If you can fix the issue, do it. If you need my help, ask. If you just want to bitch, go fuck yourself.

^Has pissed off pretty much every girlfriend I've had. Yet, it just makes sense to me...

[Era]

What I don't sympathize with, is when people go into self-pity mode over something that everyone experiences at some point or another.

[snail]

The ENFJ I was dating recently chewed me out for not giving a shit about other peoples' problems. I have since stopped talking to her. Sorry, can't change how my brain works, peace out!

If you can fix the issue, do it. If you need my help, ask. If you just want to bitch, go fuck yourself.

Here is probably the most common error made by ST types when dealing with NF types. Since you value solutions, I will explain what I see as the main problem. You probably assume that the actual situation is the thing the person has come to you for help with, but more often, when I come to someone for help, the help I need is emotional support and validation. Once I have received enough of an emotional remedy that I am not in too much pain to think clearly, I can usually solve my own problems, because when I am not distracted by overwhelming pain, which is my first priority, I am generally a rational and creative person.

This is why offering advice is often harmful rather than helpful. Usually, if I am talking about my problems, it is because I want relief from how I am feeling at the time, and that relief comes from knowing someone cares enough to listen without judging. If the other person relates and empathizes, they get bonus points as an effective healer. When I am in that state, all advice feels like accusations, and when I feel accused, I feel invalidated. This adds to the very thing I am there to remedy.

When an NF type comes to you with his/her problems, usually the best approach is to acknowledge the person's feelings. I know it probably seems counter-intuitive from the perspective of someone who is a solution-oriented concrete thinker who never experiences emotional overload. It probably sounds too simple, but the best thing you can do is let him/her bitch about what is bothering him/her. That is all it takes to be helpful. You don't need to fix anything else unless the person very specifically asks, "So, what do you think I should do about this?" For people like me, that is helping, and it does solve the problem, which is the immediate emotional pain rather than the situation that caused it.

What I don't sympathize with, is when people go into self-pity mode over something that everyone experiences at some point or another.

Just because everyone experiences something does not mean that everyone experiences it in the same way, or that it affects us all with the same intensity.

[DustyDrill]

Here is probably the most common error made by ST types when dealing with NF types. Since you value solutions, I will explain what I see as the main problem. You probably assume that the actual situation is the thing the person has come to you for help with, but more often, when I come to someone for help, the help I need is emotional support and validation. Once I have received enough of an emotional remedy that I am not in too much pain to think clearly, I can usually solve my own problems, because when I am not distracted by overwhelming pain, which is my first priority, I am generally a rational and creative person.

This is why offering advice is often harmful rather than helpful. Usually, if I am talking about my problems, it is because I want relief from how I am feeling at the time, and that relief comes from knowing someone cares enough to listen without judging. If the other person relates and empathizes, they get bonus points as an effective healer. When I am in that state, all advice feels like accusations, and when I feel accused, I feel invalidated. This adds to the very thing I am there to remedy.

When an NF type comes to you with his/her problems, usually the best approach is to acknowledge the person's feelings. I know it probably seems counter-intuitive from the perspective of someone who is a solution-oriented concrete thinker who never experiences emotional overload. It probably sounds too simple, but the best thing you can do is let him/her bitch about what is bothering him/her. That is all it takes to be helpful. You don't need to fix anything else unless the person very specifically asks, "So, what do you think I should do about this?" For people like me, that is helping, and it does solve the problem, which is the immediate emotional pain rather than the situation that caused it.

I have been schooled! Sincerely, thank you for the input. I've dated a few NFs in the past and they never could come to me with their problems. I'm Mr.Fixit, and it annoys them. They saw me as useless and I considered myself incredibly helpful, but unappreciated.

Well, shit. I'm going to have to practice this in the mirror or something, so I seem sincere. I usually come across as annoyed or uncaring without realizing it, now that I look back.

Annnnd now I know why ENFPs are crawling all over our forum. Learning is fun.

This is like learning to fix a Mac instead of a PC. That's how I'm going to rationalize it. *thumbs up*