[amnorvend]

I have a coworker who is an ISTP (or so I believe). We have a somewhat strange relationship. We are a lot alike... I mean, even to the point of completing each others' sentences and making obscure jokes no one else gets.

We get along perfectly... As long as we don't have to agree on anything. I don't want to say that things become heated, but work can come to a standstill because we often have difficulty agreeing on the most benign of subjects.

Have any of you had similar experiences? Any advice on how to handle disagreements?

[ItsAlwaysSunny]

My cousin is an INTP, though there is a slight chance that he's an ENTP. We get along pretty well, but he's a little arrogant. I'm not saying that's an INTP trait in general, but sometimes I get the feeling that he thinks I'm boring compared to him. Most of the time, I think he needs to give other people's opinions a fair chance. Other than than we get along really well.

[amnorvend]

My cousin is an INTP, though there is a slight chance that he's an ENTP. We get along pretty well, but he's a little arrogant. I'm not saying that's an INTP trait in general, but sometimes I get the feeling that he thinks I'm boring compared to him. Most of the time, I think he needs to give other people's opinions a fair chance. Other than than we get along really well.

I think (intellectual) arrogance can be a trait of less mature INTPs (when we get older we realize we really are better than everyone else ). I think it's just that Se is just so much more common than Ne (or it seems to at least be regarded as much more common socially) that people tell us just how smart we are and it tends to go to our heads a bit.

[ItsAlwaysSunny]

I think (intellectual) arrogance can be a trait of less mature INTPs (when we get older we realize we really are better than everyone else ). I think it's just that Se is just so much more common than Ne (or it seems to at least be regarded as much more common socially) that people tell us just how smart we are and it tends to go to our heads a bit.

I don't know. I get told that I'm smart all the time, but usually its for being really good at figuring things out (either in school or in daily life). There are different kinds of intelligences. My cousin is only an example of an INTP, so I'm not going to attribute his characteristics to all INTPs, but I think it would do him some good to entertain the idea that maybe he isn't just naturally on some higher level of thinking than everyone else.

From my experience, when Ne is good, its brilliant and hilarious. When Ne is bad its obnoxious and overbearing.

[Kadjunga]

the core of the problem is... that you only want theoretical solutions while we want practical solutions. Quite a few intps who i have argued with all the time come off as condescending and go on tantrums about THEORETICAL solutions for the same problem and if i offer something that will work in reality, they just silently laugh or put on an expression that they do. Which makes matters only worse. Agree to disagree is the easiest solution i came up. Unless it's a vital piece to a project.

Its a part of you, the fact that you like to view things as ideas and concepts and not as real life examples. We don't do that almost at all.

If you want to avoid such long arguments then either he has to accept that there are more ways to arguing or you should accept that pushing on purely theoretical ideas to an istp is a bad idea. It only makes matters worse if you jump from one point of view to another without a visible path. We dont see those paths at all. As you said it's a Ne vs Se thing

No offence meant, sorry.

[ItsAlwaysSunny]

the core of the problem is... that you only want theoretical solutions while we want practical solutions. Quite a few intps who i have argued with all the time come off as condescending and go on tantrums about THEORETICAL solutions for the same problem and if i offer something that will work in reality, they just silently laugh or put on an expression that they do. Which makes matters only worse. Agree to disagree is the easiest solution i came up. Unless it's a vital piece to a project.

Its a part of you, the fact that you like to view things as ideas and concepts and not as real life examples. We don't do that almost at all.

If you want to avoid such long arguments then either he has to accept that there are more ways to arguing or you should accept that pushing on purely theoretical ideas to an istp is a bad idea. It only makes matters worse if you jump from one point of view to another without a visible path. We dont see those paths at all. As you said it's a Ne vs Se thing

No offence meant, sorry.

I agree with this. If it can't be related back to real life, then it doesn't matter how good the idea was. Now, if you're just joking around, then off-the-wall, unrealistic ideas can be hilarious, but in serious conversations, reality can't be ignored. I think, to us, its illogical to be unrealistic, even if the idea works in theory.

[Erbse]

Aren't INTP's Te dominated? Issue arises probably due to us being Ti dominated and hence have a more complex idea or theory than you and possibly consider a Te construct as too inflexible or not having considered possible problems which may arise on the way.

Also, as mentioned above, we're mainly focused on practical relevance when dealing with a problem, while you aren't necessarily.

EDIT: Scratch the first part.

[amnorvend]

Also, as mentioned above, we're mainly focused on practical relevance when dealing with a problem, while you aren't necessarily.

I'm glad you brought this up because it's an important issue. Let me be clear about one thing though: I do not (and probably never will) agree that Se is more practical than Ne. I do agree that Ne is more theoretical than Se, and sometimes to a fault. As Kurt Lewin said though, nothing is as practical as a good theory.

This is what I struggle with (not just with ISTPs, but with all types who use Se on some level including ENTJs): the idea that even though it might sound I'm being an ivory tower theorist, there's method to my madness. And sometimes it's very difficult to put that method into terms that make sense to Se. But there are pragmatic benefits that I've seen first hand. I just don't know how to explain that to people who use Se.

[blackandindie]

I am really good friends with an ISTP.. we get along great. Even when we have our debates or discussions.. we have fun with it. We are very much alike, however have static fundamental differences. But it works quite well, because we learn from each other all the time.

[Erbse]

I'm glad you brought this up because it's an important issue. Let me be clear about one thing though: I do not (and probably never will) agree that Se is more practical than Ne. I do agree that Ne is more theoretical than Se, and sometimes to a fault. As Kurt Lewin said though, nothing is as practical as a good theory.

This is what I struggle with (not just with ISTPs, but with all types who use Se on some level including ENTJs): the idea that even though it might sound I'm being an ivory tower theorist, there's method to my madness. And sometimes it's very difficult to put that method into terms that make sense to Se. But there are pragmatic benefits that I've seen first hand. I just don't know how to explain that to people who use Se.

I don't doubt that all your theories can work, but if a child lost a dollar and is now crying you can either go off, find a forgery and re-print said dollar or just give him a dollar from your own pocket to make the brat shut up.

Both theories are viable and will lead to the same result inevitably, but the ISTP is most certainly gonna shrug the forgery idea due to being impractical and too roundabout and takes the immediate long term solution for an immediate problem.

We live in the here and now so to speak, that may be more of a difference inevitably and practically.

EDIT: Other possibilities would of course be to steal a dollar from someone else to give it to the brat, or take the brat and search for its lost dollar. However, regardless of the amount of theories you or I can come up with, 99% of the ISTPs are likely to go with the initial ISTP solution I've implied.

Then again, ISTPs wouldn't give a buck to a brat but just turn around leave the noise radius