[sparkles]

I can't really get a clear picture of where we stand because his actions change from one day to the next, and I don't feel like it is a good idea to have a "talk" about it. But it is hard for me to do my awesomely accomodating thing with him because his needs seem to change. If he wants some validation and reassurance that I'm going to stick around - and he is an enneagram 6 so he probably DOES want that - then I need more stable actions from him. I can't get secure, comfortable, or bold about showing just how much I want this to work over the long term if I can't have two consecutive days of seeing that he is into it.

When he is enthusiastic it is pretty damn amazing - but then the next day he acts like he is just tolerating me, and it makes me question everything.
@DaisyChain - Does it help you at all to find out this seems to be something that happens if we spend time together two days in a row? Sometimes it also happens if I text him more than once in a day. The last time it happened with the texting I backed off significantly, and then after this last sign of him being really into the relationship I started texting again once earlier in the day. The response was good for about three days, then when we spent two days in a row together (with many hours of a break in between) he was acting very into it the first day, and the second kind of withdrawn. Still responding to me, not rude or anything, just not nearly as enthusiastic as he had been up to that point.

And I can't think of anything at all I could have done that would have made him withdraw. So I am thinking it might be an I/E thing, but how can we develop any kind of secure foundation if he doesn't really enjoy spending more than one day with me at a time? Again, I'm not talking about two days straight, just two days where we spend a chunk of our free time together. I could see myself with him for good - but not if I question his feelings this much because his actions change. I could be misreading or the changes could be about something else but I don't know that is true so I am trying to figure out how I could be contributing.

I do know that when he is tired he shows it alot, and this last time I know he was tired, but how can I be sure that these changes are due to energy levels and not due to a mood that has something to do with me? I'm a ExFx so I need lots of validation....

I am almost certain that my analysis in this thread makes me sound exhausting! I am not like this in my afk life. And once I get enough confidence in this person's desire to have me around I won't obsess. In the meantime I am too socially tuned not to notice these changes, and I put effort into relationships so I am taking it seriously. Not typically so obsessive though.

[Yardiff Bey]

A lot to process in this thread. A question does come to mind: what kinds of things do you two do when together?

[sparkles]

A lot to process in this thread. A question does come to mind: what kinds of things do you two do when together?

Mostly just talk in a quiet place. Sometimes we go out to eat or see a movie or do outdoorsy stuff but mostly just hanging out.

[SeedofDavid]

Please help me figure out how to reduce the frequency of these things and how to get an accurate read on the situation in spite of getting mixed messages. How can I make sure my presence is really wanted? I hate feeling like I am just tolerated, and this stuff is going to get to me even more if I can't find a way to make it stop or reduce it, or at least find a way to view things so I don't feel like a burden. If someone is not acting like they want me around then I feel like a burden to them - so I retreat - and then that person may think *I* have changed my mind when I haven't.

Please help. Thanks.

Sounds like INTJ stuff. May want to consider it.

[sparkles]

Sounds like INTJ stuff. May want to consider it.

What do you mean by "INTJ stuff"?
I can tell by how we communicate he is a sensor and he's taken the test before. That doesn't mean we all don't have moments where we don't fit those boxes, though - so either way I am curious to know what you mean.

[MBTI Enthusiast]

@sparkles - Do you happen to know his enneagram type?

[sparkles]

@sparkles - Do you happen to know his enneagram type?

Nothing official but I'm like 80% sure he is a 6w5. Maybe 5w6 but considering how we both experience a sense of mutual understanding I think 6w5 (unlike my signature claim, I'm a 7w6).

[SeedofDavid]

What do you mean by "INTJ stuff"?
I can tell by how we communicate he is a sensor and he's taken the test before. That doesn't mean we all don't have moments where we don't fit those boxes, though - so either way I am curious to know what you mean.

Hmm, well, my older brother who I spent most of my time with growing up is an INTJ. And, the guy I'm seeing is also an INTJ. I've been testing people (MBTI) for over 10 years. The interaction that you're describing doesn't seem ISTJish to me. However it sounds much like INTJ b.s.

If an ISTJ likes you, I would say that you would not ever feel unwanted in their presence. Granted, as you were saying, people don't always fit in the boxes. If an INTJ likes you, you can expect the sort of behavior that you're describing, for a number of reasons.

There is a natural attraction due to the fact that INTJ/ESFP are complete opposites.
However, INTJs look for a rational reason for everything, try to evaluate a romantic interest on every level, and have insecurity about approaching relationships (because they are so serious about their emotions, very sensitive to rejection, and often bad at interpreting behavior and reading body language).

They do all kinds of bizarre shit, that makes sense in their head; because they create constructs in which their actions are logical, but unfortunately they are not always practical for function in reality. In other words, they don't get it. You have to tell them.

An ISTJ will give you a straight answer. An INTJ doesn't have a straight answer, because their data is not conclusive. Especially, if they like you. Because, a straight answer to them has all sorts of serious, underlying implications.

[sparkles]

Hmm, well, my older brother who I spent most of my time with growing up is an INTJ. And, the guy I'm seeing is also an INTJ. I've been testing people (MBTI) for over 10 years. The interaction that you're describing doesn't seem ISTJish to me. However it sounds much like INTJ b.s.

If an ISTJ likes you, I would say that you would not ever feel unwanted in their presence. Granted, as you were saying, people don't always fit in the boxes. If an INTJ likes you, you can expect the sort of behavior that you're describing, for a number of reasons.

Just to clarify, these times I am talking about do not amount to feeling unwanted. It is more like I start to feel tolerated instead of desired to be there.

I will try to be clearer in the "mixed messages" I am referring to - as that may alter your interpretation. But I have been basing my understanding on typing him as ISTJ, so if the clarified points still read as INTJ to you, I'd like to take that under advisement. I don't date based on MBTI but I do rely on MBTI to fill in the gaps in my interactions.

The mixed messages I am talking about are not so much about words as actions. Such as - he would say yes, I'd love to see you, then blank body language after some time together (a few hours, but I do not blabbermouth him ). Or one night he will be really cuddly and enthusiastic toward me, the next will be kind of distant.

I am wondering if the cuddly-then-distant is some kind of protective action on his part, but if that is the case then I'd hope it would stop once he sees it is all mutual. So there is a bit of a push/pull in nonverbal communication around enthusiasm and warmth, that could be due to other things, but because I'm so social I pay lots of attention to it and can get antsy.

I was reading a different thread where an ISTJ talked about having to drop the "social veneer" after so long in public, and was thinking that sounds a little like what I've been experiencing. No active dislike, no lack of response either, just going from positive body language to neutral and a dash of some sort of negativish thing (could be fatigue).

There is a natural attraction due to the fact that INTJ/ESFP are complete opposites.
However, INTJs look for a rational reason for everything, try to evaluate a romantic interest on every level, and have insecurity about approaching relationships (because they are so serious about their emotions, very sensitive to rejection, and often bad at interpreting behavior and reading body language).

Hmm. Not sure on the body language thing. Once we were in a group together, he was busy with someone so I just left rather abruptly instead of waiting until he could talk to me, and when he was around me again he apologized for not being available like he thought I was mad. Seems decently in tune??

They do all kinds of bizarre shit, that makes sense in their head; because they create constructs in which their actions are logical, but unfortunately they are not always practical for function in reality. In other words, they don't get it. You have to tell them.

An ISTJ will give you a straight answer. An INTJ doesn't have a straight answer, because their data is not conclusive. Especially, if they like you. Because, a straight answer to them has all sorts of serious, underlying implications.

I haven't exactly asked for a straight answer on emotional topics, but I have sort of posed some things, and this guy has been pretty straightforward. Except at times he will act embarrassed if I seem to appreciate small actions too much. I'm also seeing like an onion-peeling type thing with him - each time we are together he seems to share something he usually keeps rather guarded in himself. Took a little while for that, though.

Anyway, mostly I would just say the communication style rules out the INTJ - I don't like the N style humor for an in-person conversation, and find it too draining to talk about abstract stuff as much as strong Ns like to, and when I don't talk for a long enough amount of time, this guy pulls from observations in the environment or past experience for convo fuel.

But I will remember to watch out for the INTJ lol (much love to INTJs, I am sure you are tons of fun ^_^)

[Holgrave]

This mixed message stuff sounds very similar to what I do sometimes. It's not that I don't want to hang out with the person, it's just stressful when I don't get time to recharge. When I start getting stressed, it's really hard to to do anything social. When I get too stressed, I'll disappear for anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days. To prevent that, when I start feeling frazzled I excuse myself to go to the bathroom for about 5 minutes. I'm not exactly sure what would work best for him though and/or what you could do.