[lenabelle]

I feel your pain, sparkles. My ISTJ can be wildly inconsistent with relationships too. One week, he'll be talking to me every night and being surprisingly affectionate and the next, I won't hear from him at all and will get only half-hearted responses when I reach out to him. We had issues early on with him going off on trips for days with friends and not even letting me know he'd be unreachable. I don't think the thought that I would be confused and missing him ever occurred to him. Before I got into MBTI, I thought he just didn't value our relationship and that was a constant source of stress on our relationship, but now I know it's just that ISTJ independent streak. So hard for extroverted feelers, and yet we can't seem to stay away. ;)



I've been dealing with it by just trying not to take everything he does personally and suppressing all of the natural doubt and anxiety that I get from these "mixed messages". It's a constant war between how I feel and how I know I should feel. At the end of the day though, I know he cares about me, or else he wouldn't take the time to be with me. In general, I've gotten better at knowing when he's had enough and needs to recharge. The morning after a night together, I could cuddle and hang around for ages, but when he's had his fill and needs some time on his own again, I'll know because he'll just get up and start doing work on his computer, and that's my cue to leave. You asked whether their need to recharge gets less frequent as you get closer, and I think it does to an extent. Earlier in our relationship, I used to get the "please leave" body language by 10AM. Now he'll happily stay in bed until after noon if I want to, even taking me out to breakfast afterwards (shocking!). He's also gotten a little better at picking up on my emotions too, which always amuses me because he's gets so proud of himself for making the effort to do what comes automatically to me. The good thing about ISTJs is that dating them will certainly improve your patience. :P

[sparkles]

I feel your pain, sparkles. My ISTJ can be wildly inconsistent with relationships too. One week, he'll be talking to me every night and being surprisingly affectionate and the next, I won't hear from him at all and will get only half-hearted responses when I reach out to him. We had issues early on with him going off on trips for days with friends and not even letting me know he'd be unreachable. I don't think the thought that I would be confused and missing him ever occurred to him. Before I got into MBTI, I thought he just didn't value our relationship and that was a constant source of stress on our relationship, but now I know it's just that ISTJ independent streak. So hard for extroverted feelers, and yet we can't seem to stay away. ;)

Haven't seen that particular expression of this stuff, but it does have a similar tone. It gets confusing sometimes, for sure. Hard to keep yourself commited when you can't tell where you stand. (For me it is. I only want to be with someone who wants to be with me and who realizes I'm a catch, and when I don't get that kind of feedback I don't think they understand that I could have picked someone else but chose to be with them instead. And even as a Feeler it is difficult to allow feelings to be there when I don't feel like they are reciprocated... it's more dangerous that way.)

I've been dealing with it by just trying not to take everything he does personally and suppressing all of the natural doubt and anxiety that I get from these "mixed messages". It's a constant war between how I feel and how I know I should feel.

What do you mean, how you feel and how you know you should feel?

At the end of the day though, I know he cares about me, or else he wouldn't take the time to be with me. In general, I've gotten better at knowing when he's had enough and needs to recharge. The morning after a night together, I could cuddle and hang around for ages, but when he's had his fill and needs some time on his own again, I'll know because he'll just get up and start doing work on his computer, and that's my cue to leave. You asked whether their need to recharge gets less frequent as you get closer, and I think it does to an extent. Earlier in our relationship, I used to get the "please leave" body language by 10AM. Now he'll happily stay in bed until after noon if I want to, even taking me out to breakfast afterwards (shocking!). He's also gotten a little better at picking up on my emotions too, which always amuses me because he's gets so proud of himself for making the effort to do what comes automatically to me. The good thing about ISTJs is that dating them will certainly improve your patience. :P

Ha, yeah I can see that on the patience thing. So hard to read sometimes. I have an ISTJ friend who isn't hard to read at all, but she is more expressive about things for some reason.

Idk - I have been too into this. I am trying to talk myself down some. I'm not afraid of how I feel about it but I am projecting way too much. Or at least I don't think I want to feel the way I have been about it at this point, maybe it can come back later. (Yes something happened to make me say that. No I don't want to talk about it because I'm being silly.)

[lenabelle]

What do you mean, how you feel and how you know you should feel?

I meant that I sometimes feel like I'm in a one-sided relationship. The signs of affection just aren't there consistently, and as you've said, we rely on stuff like that to know where we stand with people. So I end up feeling lonely and neglected and such. But I know I shouldn't feel that way because he's proven before that he does care. He just has a different way of showing it that isn't always so readily apparent. Gahh, sometimes I hate being a feeler.

He's the only ISTJ that I know well, and I don't know any female ISTJs at all, so I can't say how I am at reading other ISTJs. My guess is that female ISTJs would be better at expressing themselves since they've had to adapt to the majority of women being feeling.

[MindBomb]

Holy cow that was a shit-ton of words! I'm exhausted just reading the thread; but it was interesting.

Here's my synthesizing take:

1. You are being way too reactionary. As an Se-dom, I get why that happens; but you need to chill. Think about the big picture, not just what is happening in the moment.
   
2. You are also projecting quite a bit of your emotional read on the situation. It comes off as insecure...and we all know that insecurity = death knell for any relationship.
   
3. Points 1 and 2 lead to turbulent emotional shifts in the relationship that are making it difficult for your guy to predict how to respond to you and the relationship. This final point is hugely important.

Let the relationship breathe. Let him breathe. Relax.

But perhaps this is bizarre shit, inconclusive, and impractical...looking at you @SeedofDavid =D

[Sela]

My guess is that female ISTJs would be better at expressing themselves since they've had to adapt to the majority of women being feeling.

^ This. ... and it's awkward, at best. Some days are better than others as far as "fitting in" socially. Being an ISTJ female is not something I would want to wish on anyone. Most days I'm in direct conflict with what western society deems socially acceptable for females. Some days I'm like "grrrrrr", and other days I'm like "I've got a job to do and don't have time for this stupid social crap".

This can backfire at times; more often than not I'm just "another dude" in my circle of (mostly male) friends. This is great when we're talking about guns, cars, home-improvement projects and other stereotypical male stuff, but HELLO I AM FEMALE TOO.

[sparkles]

I meant that I sometimes feel like I'm in a one-sided relationship. The signs of affection just aren't there consistently, and as you've said, we rely on stuff like that to know where we stand with people. So I end up feeling lonely and neglected and such. But I know I shouldn't feel that way because he's proven before that he does care. He just has a different way of showing it that isn't always so readily apparent. Gahh, sometimes I hate being a feeler.

He's the only ISTJ that I know well, and I don't know any female ISTJs at all, so I can't say how I am at reading other ISTJs. My guess is that female ISTJs would be better at expressing themselves since they've had to adapt to the majority of women being feeling.

Ah, okay I understand. Did you ever express to him verbally how you naturally need that feedback?

I think you're right about the difference between them. I also think they have different enneagrams which would relate. Not sure what hers is, might be a 7. She can seem sparkly at times and she loves to host (smallish) parties. I can't picture him even inviting more than one person over at a time.

[sparkles]

Holy cow that was a shit-ton of words! I'm exhausted just reading the thread; but it was interesting.

Here's my synthesizing take:

1. You are being way too reactionary. As an Se-dom, I get why that happens; but you need to chill. Think about the big picture, not just what is happening in the moment.
2. You are also projecting quite a bit of your emotional read on the situation. It comes off as insecure...and we all know that insecurity = death knell for any relationship.
3. Points 1 and 2 lead to turbulent emotional shifts in the relationship that are making it difficult for your guy to predict how to respond to you and the relationship. This final point is hugely important.

Let the relationship breathe. Let him breathe. Relax.

But perhaps this is bizarre shit, inconclusive, and impractical...looking at you @SeedofDavid =D

Yes yes... all fair points. Not too assholic either. ;)

I think I came to that same conclusion last night. I don't think the results of my reactionariness have resulted in significant shifts, but I do think I've been making it all too big and important. Thanks for the input!