[olivene]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for 9 months, and I love him dearly.
Interestingly enough, he is an ISTJ and I am an INTP. I fit the INTP pretty well in that I think very much in the abstract, am the "absent-minded professor", and like to tackle abstract problems to help keep my mind sharp.
My boyfriend is very much an ISTJ. He is traditional, family-oriented, wants to work in corporate law, is on-task/on-point, aware etc etc.
I keep seeing people really down this pairing and I have to say that this is the happiest I've been with another human being. Granted, the fact that we can't have intellectual conversations drives me nuts (he says, "Why even think about that stuff??"), but he complements me well in every day life, has the same offbeat humor/quirkiness, and balances me out.
My main question is: Do ISTJs think about things like God, Reason, and Faith? Abstract concepts, that is? Is there any point in trying to find out what he thinks about these things? If so, how?

[Alpengeist19]

My father is an ISTJ and I've found I can't relate to him on an intellectual level at all. I hope you have better luck with your boyfriend.

[Eiderdrown]

I have conversations or well...listen to my Grandfather's.. opinions on philosophy, biology and chemistry. I mean, far too complex and lightyears ahead of levels I'll see in my life on these subjects... and he is an ISTJ. Yes, he does enjoy thinking more abstract idea's i'd say. But these ideas have developed only later in his life, he was always working like a dog from what I hear; didn't have time to think of these things I guess.

Maybe it's time and freedom that opened him up; I wouldn't know..But that might be something to try out with your boyfriend. An open mindscape of the world is what INTPs exist through (generalization)...
Each type has the aptitude for same sort of breathing, but it's generally frightening. The people who I care for; I wouldn't want to live like this, so even if I wanted; I wouldn't force it.


The best answer I can give is that to embrace rather than optimize is sometimes optimal

[olivene]

I really appreciate your response Eiderdown.
I will care for my boyfriend no matter what or how he thinks! You're so right when you say, "To embrace rather than optimize is sometimes optimal". I have to remember that relationships aren't machines that you turn in a certain way to get a certain result (believe me -- my minor in communications suggests otherwise...people can be incredibly predictable in how they relate with others!)...though I take my commitment very seriously and apply communication theory that I've learned in order to smooth over things (he has no idea how many thoughts I process as pertaining to the relationship in order to make it work for me as well as for him!).
But as much theory as I implement, said theory does not outline how I feel...because love is a highly individualized experience (from what I can see)...and it depends very much on the persons involved.
This being said, some things just must "be"...or as Kant would say...exist as the "thing(s) in and of it(them)self(selves)". Love cannot be rationalized...and I just have to accept him as-is and go with it.

Thanks again! :)

[Rhee]

My main question is: Do ISTJs think about things like God, Reason, and Faith? Abstract concepts, that is?

I have established opinions on the above topics. Any bit of new information that I come across is duly inspected and evaluated. My updated stance is then saved and promptly filed away.

I don't spend much time dwelling on/actively thinking about those subjects because 1) a lot of my time and attention goes into my daytime job, and 2) more concrete pet subjects like general science and politics happen to rank higher on my list of interests.

Is there any point in trying to find out what he thinks about these things? If so, how?

If your dude is truly a lazy thinker I doubt you would've started dating him in the first place. So I suspect that the issue simply stems from your differing viewpoints on what constitutes 'an intellectual discussion.' If the ISTJ is someone who has pursued concrete intellect all his life, he may have to recognize that abstract thinking also has its intrinsic value. My suggestions:


1. Present your ideas in an attractive way.
Emphasize the real-life applications and relevance of your topic. Be clear and specific in your question.
'What do you think about faith?... well I dunno, anything. Just give me your general thoughts.' probably won't cut it.

Try something like:
'I've heard that a Jehovah's Witness got charged with negligent manslaughter by refusing surgical treatment for his six-year-old daughter (who was fatally injured in a traffic accident.)
Can faith justify an individual's decision to refuse medical treatment? What about on behalf of another individual?
What aspect of faith do you think causes people to behave this way?
When an individual's freedom to exercise faith clashes with the legal stance on preservation of human life, which should come first?
Can society regulate the extent of an individual's exercise of his faith, and punish him if his actions violate the current law?' Basic stuff that I just pulled out of my ass, so you could do better.


2. Attack the areas of mutual interest.
Practical knowledge is often based on abstract theories. Assuming your BF studies law, legal philosophy is an obvious goldmine of legacies by European thinkers. (Ask if he agrees with Kant's absolute faith in human rationality and how it manifests itself in a law that emphasizes punishment over rehabilitation. Or whether he thinks that Carl Schmitt's belief in a 'powerful dictator' is still relevant at all in this age.)

Many constitutional and criminal law cases have moral implications begging to be delved into. Start from his turf and progressively lure him over into yours; ie. start from the concrete and work on turning it into the abstract... preferably before he starts to notice what's going on.

[Yardiff Bey]

Excellently put @Rhee - you articulated clearly what I have been trying to break down into words.

@olivene - if you do it gently, or actually happen to strike things from the correct angle, you might be utterly amazed at the verbal flood which comes forth from your ISTJ's mind. Remember and treasure it, because it will not happen in exactly the same manner again. Once we have expressed something, we will not generally do it on the same subject again. Unless something comes up which requires reassessment and amplification.

I myself have literally gone for weeks without being particularly communicative - nothing more than the ordinary day-to-day stuff. If there's nothing special or important for me to say, then I won't say much beyond the usual. Then something will trigger an explosion of words and I will spout forth for a couple of hours, finally subsiding back into silence, with perhaps a few words of amplification or building upon extra thoughts if they seem necessary.

Cherish your ISTJ's rare founts of verbosity. Those are the times when he will really open up and show the values that drive him, which he has developed over years of silence and introspective thought.

==========================================

Special Thought: This might be why some types of thinkers drive me completely batshit. I express my thoughts/opinions once. It is then expected that said thoughts have been noted and filed away appropriately - they do not need to be restated or rehashed, they're said, done, generally fixed and firm.

Yet some people seem to want to go over and over and over a thought endlessly, bringing it up again and again and again, rehashing and reassessing ad-infinitum. To the point where it seems insane and I just want to run like hell away from those types of people.

[olivene]

@Yardiff Bey -- that sounds just like him!
Any declaration of love has been sincere and low-key..and I haven't really heard it again (there is still verbal affection but none too dramatic). Thankfully, I am the kind of thinker who enjoys ruminating (sorry!!) so I oftentimes will play these moments back in my mind. I think that helps compensate for both of our reserved natures of affection. If I can think of those things he says (and he is a very straightforward and honest guy) and connect them with the way he looks at me, or touches my arm affectionately, etc., I really do feel a connection.
I tend to chat a lot...and by chat I mean...anything that strikes me as interesting in my day I see as a point of amusement because I "narrate" in my mind. I really enjoy sharing these thoughts with him (though nobody else) and occasionally a philosophical point of view will insert itself unintentionally. Thus, I find it's pretty easy to get to know me as a human being (I play off of the abstract and bounce back to the concrete easily)...if I find you trustworthy and competent.
Also, the "weeks without anything particular significant to comment on" statement resonated with my experiences with him. Sometimes he just likes talking about his day and it drives me nuts! ...my days always tend to be adventure-filled and exciting even if they are mundane to others just because of my quirky sense of interpreting things. Sometimes he just likes talking about things like, "I did A., then I did B., then I happened upon C., but quickly came back to task and completed D."
I will try out what you have suggested! :) Thanks again!!

[littledeer]

My main question is: Do ISTJs think about things like God, Reason, and Faith? Abstract concepts, that is? Is there any point in trying to find out what he thinks about these things? If so, how?

I have firmly held opinions about God, Reason and Faith. If I'm comfortable with you and the timing's right, I'll talk your ear off.

I'd be careful about assuming that you can't have "intellectual conversations" with your boyfriend. It infers that he's your intellectual inferior and men (I don't care who they are) do not like to feel they are intellectually inferior to their partner.

He might be a non-curious sort, but I bet he just hasn't opened up yet.

[olivene]

I've never told him that I think he's not intellectually on-par with me. I actually have told him the opposite -- that I know that he's perfectly capable of having these thoughts (and I hold the belief he really does), but he's just not opening up for some reason, and it frustrates me. I've been patient with him and sought out other sources of intellectual stimulation while he's getting comfortable with opening up with me about those things.
He has said a lot of things that hint at him thinking more deeply than he lets on, however. I think he's a very intelligent individual (as intelligent or even more so than I am) and I always would love to know more about him...however and whenever he chooses to let me know.
These communication techniques are really helpful! Thank you for the advice :D

[Stephen]

Do ISTJs think about things like God, Reason, and Faith? Abstract concepts, that is? Is there any point in trying to find out what he thinks about these things? If so, how?

Yes. Everybody thinks about abstract concepts. This typology is about preference, not ability. The ISTJ profile is one of someone who prefers to think about things in a practical sense. Your boyfriend is asking you why you're thinking about these things, right? It's not that he can't. It's that he doesn't feel like it, because he doesn't see a point.

In fact, if he's an ISTJ and you're an INTP, you're using the same perceiving functions, just in a different balance. He's preferring Si to Ne, you're preferring Ne to Si. Think of perception as a slide rule, with each end of the rule one of the functions. You can move away from Si and toward Ne, or vice versa, but the more you use of one, the less you use of the other. Over time, particularly in each other's company, and given enough inspiration, you may both find you're sliding a little more in the other direction on demand, and without feeling so off balance.