[ISTJ] The Female "ISTJ"

The Female "ISTJ"

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This is a discussion on The Female "ISTJ" within the ISTJ Forum - The Duty Fulfillers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; So, it seems like every girl I have ever talked to who claims to be an ISTJ, has always ended ...

  1. #1
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    The Female "ISTJ"

    So, it seems like every girl I have ever talked to who claims to be an ISTJ, has always ended up being a closet "feeler". (I could name a few on this forum!) That is, they would claim the ISTJ title, but after talking to them for a while and allowing them to get comfortable in conversing with me, I easily come to the ISFP/ISFJ conclusion.

    Is this typical? Are ISTJ girls real or do girls just put up an ISTJ "front" and then gradually show their true colors after you start talking to them?
    niss, Sela, tnredhead and 1 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    I think that what you are seeing is societal pressures forming them to be less ISTJ in expression. As they mature, watch them come back to ISTJ-dom.
    chinesefries, Sela, petals of stone and 7 others thanked this post.

  3. #3
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    I think it is quite clear that Sela is an ISTJ.

    I think that it is a bit of nature vs. nurture going on. Women are often conditioned by family and societal expectations to be more "feelery", so they actually get good at it. But their innate nature is still T and not F.
    niss, Sela, petals of stone and 5 others thanked this post.

  4. #4
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Quote Originally Posted by niss View Post
    I think that what you are seeing is societal pressures forming them to be less ISTJ in expression. As they mature, watch them come back to ISTJ-dom.
    I was thinking it was the opposite, with higher education and "political correctness" teaching young women that they should be equally as "tough" and "demanding" as men. I'm not saying all men at T, I'm just saying, that's what the liberal indoctrination of "higher education" teaches young women. I wouldn't be surprised if you rounded up a group of extreme feminists and compared them with "normal" women you would see a higher T count in the extreme feminists!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I think it is quite clear that Sela is an ISTJ.

    I think that it is a bit of nature vs. nurture going on. Women are often conditioned by family and societal expectations to be more "feelery", so they actually get good at it. But their innate nature is still T and not F.
    I've not really read many of Sela's posts, I'll have to check them out. So you're telling me they TRICK people into thinking they are F? I mean, that would make sense, but it seems like it's more of the opposite... they are tricking people into thinking they are T's, but then fold and their behavior changes to line up more similar with a feeler.

    This is confusing.
    niss, Sela, Rhee and 2 others thanked this post.

  5. #5
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    T count won't change--nor will their personality type, even when young. What will change is their perception of themselves. Since MBTI is a self-reporting assessment, that makes it appear that their type changed--but it really didn't. They are just bowing to societal pressures. As they age, they will gain confidence and feel more comfortable with who they are, and their self-reporting will reflect that.
    chinesefries, Sela, petals of stone and 7 others thanked this post.

  6. #6
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Quote Originally Posted by NARCO View Post
    So you're telling me they TRICK people into thinking they are F? I mean, that would make sense, but it seems like it's more of the opposite... they are tricking people into thinking they are T's, but then fold and their behavior changes to line up more similar with a feeler.
    I don't think it is usually done with intent, so there is no "tricking" going on, except to maybe trick themselves. But if your family and society at large expects you to be more F-like due to your gender, you may grow up working to fit yourself into that paradigm. This can result in a T with a well-developed F, at least to external observers. That doesn't mean they aren't really a T underneath.

    But I'm no expert in this MBTI stuff.
    niss, Sela, petals of stone and 4 others thanked this post.

  7. #7
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers


    Hobbes is right. No one can claim that the old-fashioned stereotype of women being submissive, emotional, and kind has been overthrown by higher education and "political correctness". That stereotype is ingrained into our society. It will take a long time, or maybe never, before men and women are seen as complete equals. As SJs, we all want to fulfill our duties, and for females, it is often to act caring and sweet.

    Here is a pertinent quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://morriscat.50megs.com/type/istjtype.html
    While all Thinking females swim upstream in our society, this is particularly true for female ISTJs. The responsible, driven nature of this type, while admirable, flies in the face of traditionally "feminine" traits. Moreover, as traditionalists at hearts, ISTJ females are inwardly conflicted about trying to balance the conventional feminine roles -- mothering and nurturing -- with their objective, organized (TJ) nature.
    I agree with niss, as well. Perhaps later in life these societal images will be less influential and our true Thinking nature will be more clearly expressed after courtship is over and married life sets in.

    We don't "trick" people into believing that we are more Feeling than we actually are. It is all subconscious. We do align with some desire to be F-like, since we see that as our stereotypical "duty".

    However, I'm a poor example of the stereotypical female ISTJ as I am also a Type 9. That's a whole 'nother can of worms which also causes me to sometimes act like a Feeler.
    lirulin, niss, Sela and 8 others thanked this post.

  8. #8
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Quote Originally Posted by NARCO View Post
    I was thinking it was the opposite, with higher education and "political correctness" teaching young women that they should be equally as "tough" and "demanding" as men. I'm not saying all men at T, I'm just saying, that's what the liberal indoctrination of "higher education" teaches young women. I wouldn't be surprised if you rounded up a group of extreme feminists and compared them with "normal" women you would see a higher T count in the extreme feminists!
    I don't really see thinkers as having less feelings than feelers, it's just that they don't use them to make decisions. If you found some extreme feminists, you would find some extreme feelers for imo, they overreact and don't use logic. I know three feminists, and they're all feelers. I think a true thinker feminist would pick their battles more easily instead of assuming that every thing they don't agree with is tied to the patriarchal society.

    In response to us acting more as feelers from your viewpoint, I'm going to guess this. The typical societal male doesn't show his feelings, and thinkers are much better at that than feelers. Therefore, perhaps you assume that all thinkers act like the typical societal male? However, females are considered emotional and people expect us to show our feelings. So the girls on here show our feelings more freely, reminding you of the feeling males who can't hold it in. It's not that thinkers don't have feelings, it's just that we don't use them for our decision making quite as much. But just compare a feeler female to a thinker female and you'll find some large differences.

    It's all about society, us thinker females still have feelings and society allows us to show them. But thinker males are taught by society not to, and it's so much easier to comply with this than the feeling males. I hope that made sense, I really didn't like my wording but I'm not sure how else to phrase it.
    chinesefries, nosilla, lirulin and 9 others thanked this post.

  9. #9
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Questioning whether 'ISTJ women are real' is a bit like asking whether Feeler men really exist. You're walking on pretty thin ice here, man. Tread with caution. ;)



    Quote Originally Posted by NARCO View Post
    I was thinking it was the opposite, with higher education and "political correctness" teaching young women that they should be equally as "tough" and "demanding" as men. I'm not saying all men at T, I'm just saying, that's what the liberal indoctrination of "higher education" teaches young women. I wouldn't be surprised if you rounded up a group of extreme feminists and compared them with "normal" women you would see a higher T count in the extreme feminists!
    At the same time, I think women are pressured to be "emotionally open" and "nurturing" in interpersonal relationships. IMO, men can be assholes to people and get away with it more easily as being "tough" and "assertive."

    I'm not sure I follow the connection between being an extreme feminist and being a Thinker. It's also a bit funny that you contrasted feminists against 'normal' women, LOL. Most 'normal' women would be feminists to a degree, anyway. If they aren't, it's my very personal thought that they probably should be.



    Quote Originally Posted by NARCO View Post
    I've not really read many of Sela's posts, I'll have to check them out. So you're telling me they TRICK people into thinking they are F? I mean, that would make sense, but it seems like it's more of the opposite... they are tricking people into thinking they are T's, but then fold and their behavior changes to line up more similar with a feeler.

    This is confusing.
    Not really. It's easier for Thinker men to live in our present society, as opposed to Feeler men who get more crap from everyone. What with the gender roles it would logically be the opposite for women. Women are 'expected' to be Feelers to begin with. When expectations are not met, there's going to be resistance.
    chinesefries, lirulin, niss and 7 others thanked this post.

  10. #10
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    I tend to be more reserved and not to show my real feelings if I don't know you that well. Once I get to know you more, I'm more willing to show my true colors. (which is rainbow color, lol)
    Sela, Rhee, Arinn and 2 others thanked this post.


 
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