[Sela]

ISTJ women are everywhere. You act like they are uncommon. In university most of the girls in science and engineering are probably ISTJs.

... and business.

[SoftBoiledLife]

If you're interested in her, wish you both best of luck.

[Qadosh]

No, that's the symptom.

For an ISTJ to be habitually late to a specific function, or to not display a strong work ethic, there must be something about either the activity or the process of getting to the activity that the ISTJ dislikes.

Example: If you are typically late and/or drag your feet to the point where you make other family members late to church, then there is either something negative you are associating with church, the drive, or the process of getting ready for church. It does not necessarily mean that you disagree with religion and are being forced to go against your will by another person or persons. It could be a simple thing. Maybe that you simply dislike the whole process of getting dolled up for a formal event that reoccurs so often, or maybe that you dislike the clothes you feel obligated to wear.

If the ISTJ doesn't display a strong work ethic, it could be for several reasons, but it tends to be a lack of relevance, lack of feeling appreciated, being burned out, or not feeling that they are in control of their life.

NOTE: These are examples to illustrate a point, not the point itself.

HTH

Interesting. I always made my family late for church. I hated church. As far as work ethic... I just don't have whatever inside my brain that is able to find the attention span to read textbooks/study/do schoolwork. I occasionally cram when I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, but for the most part I just wing it through my classes and manage to maintain a 3.0. I would get a 4.0 if I could find some kind of motivation or adderall. Adderall seems to be the only thing that can allow me to study. I should probably see a psychiatrist about getting a legit prescription to it, but that would require venturing outside the confines of my lair.

I need you to get a doctorate and psychoanalyze me, niss.

Sidenote: I did see your first post regarding this but I never know how to find the questions for what you ask when you post in this way, so I didn't respond. Your assignments are too difficult for me to know where to even begin. You underestimate my incompetency in the subject from which you lecture/teach.

[niss]

Interesting. I always made my family late for church. I hated church. As far as work ethic... I just don't have whatever inside my brain that is able to find the attention span to read textbooks/study/do schoolwork. I occasionally cram when I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, but for the most part I just wing it through my classes and manage to maintain a 3.0. I would get a 4.0 if I could find some kind of motivation or adderall. Adderall seems to be the only thing that can allow me to study. I should probably see a psychiatrist about getting a legit prescription to it, but that would require venturing outside the confines of my lair.

I'd go even further. It wasn't church in general that you hated, but a certain aspect of it that you hated.

You do have the "whatever" inside your brain that is necessary to maintain a 4.0. What you are lacking is relevance. If you will ever focus on the future and the possibilities of what could be instead of focusing on what is, you will see your grades come up. You don't see the necessity of working really hard on this because there is not a convincing reason on the horizon. Just over the horizon is your relevance--but you are not there yet--continue on your current path and it becomes shoulda, woulda, coulda. Two immediate reasons:

1) You don't know what you will need for the next level in this game we call life. You are treating school as a punch list of things that you can check off and be done with that class, or that requirement. When you walk into class with the idea that you are there to learn everything possible from that teacher, those students, and that class, your complete scholastic experience changes. It's about your attitude toward learning.

2) At some point, as you begin to take your place in society and become the leader that you eventually will (I have no doubt at all on this), then you will wish that you had paid closer attention to everything being offered to you at this point. You will remember this conversation and this post as you study to "catch up" so that you feel comfortable leading people. Yes, you will study for knowledge then, if you do not do it now.

I'm not a fan of drugs at all. A friend just posted on FB rationalizing why she is putting her son on Ritalin. She claims it is because he is having trouble concentrating and she needs him to be able to concentrate and to learn to read. In reality, the kid is really very bright and a typical boy. But she is too busy to work with him at home and to take the time to understand his learning style and to invest in her child. Dad is no better. So the kid gets drugs because he doesn't fit into the "box" of their lifestyle. How we treat our boys because they don't conveniently fit into our little box of how things should be, and give them drugs to cover for our poor attempts at parenting, hacks me off to no end. My opinion of this girl and her husband has plummeted.

I need you to get a doctorate and psychoanalyze me, niss.

Analyze yourself. Who better knows you than you? You need to understand your motivations and then you will understand yourself. That is exactly what niss did.

Sidenote: I did see your first post regarding this but I never know how to find the questions for what you ask when you post in this way, so I didn't respond. Your assignments are too difficult for me to know where to even begin. You underestimate my incompetency in the subject from which you lecture/teach.

You are not incompetent. It is unfamiliar and exhausting, so you take the easy way out--avoidance. Instead of doing that, say what you do think and understand and allow the discussion to develop. You have great insight, but you seldom articulate it. When you take the time to do so, it is like flashes of light--brilliant flashes that reveal your inner depth. You need to learn to value yourself and your thoughts as a person.

You are very competent. You are untrained and want the easy fix. Only this time, there is no easy fix. You must search it out for yourself. Others may guide, but you have to do the heavy lifting.

[Qadosh]

I'd go even further. It wasn't church in general that you hated, but a certain aspect of it that you hated.

The length of list I could compile stating the certain aspects of church I hated would be long.

You do have the "whatever" inside your brain that is necessary to maintain a 4.0. What you are lacking is relevance. If you will ever focus on the future and the possibilities of what could be instead of focusing on what is, you will see your grades come up. You don't see the necessity of working really hard on this because there is not a convincing reason on the horizon. Just over the horizon is your relevance--but you are not there yet--continue on your current path and it becomes shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I could read/discuss/be told the reasons I am not maintaining a 4.0 all day, but at the end of the day I don't have the focus. There could be a million reasons why. Do any of them matter if there is no way to fix the reason?

2) At some point, as you begin to take your place in society and become the leader that you eventually will (I have no doubt at all on this), then you will wish that you had paid closer attention to everything being offered to you at this point. You will remember this conversation and this post as you study to "catch up" so that you feel comfortable leading people. Yes, you will study for knowledge then, if you do not do it now.

I'm unsure of why you believe I will become a leader in something. Not only am I never the leader in anything, when I am placed in a position of leadership I do not enjoy it. I would rather be in a position where I am the leader's "right-hand man". I'm good at that, and it is the role I have had many times in my geeky guilds in World of Warcraft .

I'm not a fan of drugs at all.

Neither am I. Adderall does seem to be the solution, though.

Analyze yourself. Who better knows you than you? You need to understand your motivations and then you will understand yourself. That is exactly what niss did.

The psychoanalysis of one's elf is something that isn't done often and the findings made in such a situation are usually taken with a grain of salt from what I've read.

You are not incompetent. It is unfamiliar and exhausting, so you take the easy way out--avoidance. Instead of doing that, say what you do think and understand and allow the discussion to develop. You have great insight, but you seldom articulate it. When you take the time to do so, it is like flashes of light--brilliant flashes that reveal your inner depth. You need to learn to value yourself and your thoughts as a person.

I don't know about any of my posts ever having a brilliant flash of light, but maybe if I had a specific example of where I've said something that you considered to be a flash of light, I could better understand.

You are untrained and want the easy fix. Only this time, there is no easy fix. You must search it out for yourself. Others may guide, but you have to do the heavy lifting.

I'm at point A. I need to reach point B. Point A is an island 500 miles away from the island of point B and I don't know how to swim.

This is what it seems like when I talk to you about certain subjects:

Qadosh: "How do I reach point B?"
Niss: "You just swim there. 500 miles isn't that far."
Qadosh: "But I don't know how to swim."
Niss: "Figure it out, dude."
Qadosh: "But I don't even know where to begin.."
Niss: "You'll eventually figure it out somehow probably."
Qadosh:
Niss:

[Caius20]

In other news, the young lady I took out tonight was most definitely another ISTJ. We basically mirrored each other all night. We would talk, and finish each others' sentences, as if the same thoughts had occurred in the same order (Which, apparently they did. We tested it.). It was fun, actually. There was none of the social drainage that usually occurs. Moving things along was quite easy and fluid.

Also, to the OP, what happened with YOUR ISTJ girl?

[niss]

^^^Might not have been an ISTJ--could have been a really good ENFP (really strong Ne and Fi)

[niss]

@Qadosh--I missed this last post of yours. Gotta go to work...I'll post a reply tonight.

[niss]

I could read/discuss/be told the reasons I am not maintaining a 4.0 all day, but at the end of the day I don't have the focus. There could be a million reasons why. Do any of them matter if there is no way to fix the reason?

But there is a way to fix it...remember this?

How is your work ethic?

I'm unsure of why you believe I will become a leader in something. Not only am I never the leader in anything, when I am placed in a position of leadership I do not enjoy it. I would rather be in a position where I am the leader's "right-hand man". I'm good at that, and it is the role I have had many times in my geeky guilds in World of Warcraft .

Yep, exactly how I, and almost every other ISTJ feels about themselves. But the funny thing is to look at the leadership of almost every corporation, small business, university, elementary school, middle school, or high school, and you will find ISTJs that have risen to the top and assumed leadership positions. You have the intelligence, but you lack the reason to excel. Once that reason occurs to you, a leader will be born.

Neither am I. Adderall does seem to be the solution, though.

Crutch...not a solution.

The psychoanalysis of one's elf is something that isn't done often and the findings made in such a situation are usually taken with a grain of salt from what I've read.

Then read someone else. The best minds analyze themselves relentlessly, and in doing so gain tremendous insight to their motives. No one can know you like you can know you.

I don't know about any of my posts ever having a brilliant flash of light, but maybe if I had a specific example of where I've said something that you considered to be a flash of light, I could better understand.

Do you hold grudges?
How much planning do you really do???
How does an ISTJ express romantic interest? (2nd paragraph)
Who do you call "friend?"
why are ISTJs always so closed up about themselves???

...for a few. There are many more that I have not listed.

I'm at point A. I need to reach point B. Point A is an island 500 miles away from the island of point B and I don't know how to swim.

This is what it seems like when I talk to you about certain subjects:

Qadosh: "How do I reach point B?"
Niss: "You just swim there. 500 miles isn't that far."
Qadosh: "But I don't know how to swim."
Niss: "Figure it out, dude."
Qadosh: "But I don't even know where to begin.."
Niss: "You'll eventually figure it out somehow probably."
Qadosh:
Niss:

And here is my take:

Qadosh: "How do I reach point B?"
Niss: "You just swim there. 500 miles isn't that far."
Qadosh: "But I don't know how to swim."
Niss: "Get in the water."
Qadosh: "But I don't even know where to begin.."
Niss: "First you have to get in the water, if you would swim."
Qadosh:
Niss: Waits for Qadosh to get in the water, but Qadosh stands...waiting...and waiting...and waiting.

[Qadosh]

Niss: Waits for Qadosh to get in the water, but Qadosh stands...waiting...and waiting...and waiting.

I'm waiting for my floaties with little ducks on them.

Sorry to be so needy and make you answer all that. Looking back, it seems silly of me to even post what I posted. Qadosh is sometimes moody... and always confused and frustrated.

EDIT: oh, and stubborn.