[Liminality]

I think I recognise that I'm stuck in a Si-Ti loop. I was recently faced with a situation relating to old issues, in which I was lost as to the right thing to do - I felt incapable of making a decision. The deciding factor was worst case scenarios and taking the safe route; only ever ending up in refusals: 'no'.
In the past, years ago, when I made an attempt to act without agonising over the consequences (partially as I didn't have the experience ot conceive of such possibilities, and I doubt many other people would have, considering the consequences), which lead to an extended period of badness I dont ever want to re-experience, and a host of other negative consequences. Even before this, I would have some trouble knowing what was the right thing to do: sitting on the fence as I didn't want to impose an opinion I wasn't sure of, or as I could see both sides of the argument and couldn't just between them, generally avoiding ever doing anything wrong; always sticking to the safe path in life.

My question is, how can I, and should I trust that it is a good thing to be more certain in life, and with that in mind, how did you ISFJs (Or other types with similar experiences/experiences relating to ISFJs/relevant general advice) battle/deal with this sense of needing some one else point me in the right direction/lacking my own certainties on the issue?

I've worked on becoming more active in terms of conflict between friends, but this doesn't resolve my inner feelings when particular quandries arise - namley on the subject of romantic/sexual advances; dating and intimacy being a bit of an inexplicable phobia of mine; my response is overwhelming and always blinsidingly unexpected and unpredictable; exacerberating the fears of making rash decisions when even the safest can encounter situations where I'll have to deal with intense, suddenly appearing emotions due to romantic advances, or, after particularly unthreatening advances by people I don't really know, quandries over whether I should try to combat it through actively seeking some kind of experience - I can see all the negative possibility so this is highly unlikely to happen, and if so, highly likely to end in disaster in my eyes.



I worry that in asking this, I am looking for an excuse to do something foolish, with the momentum of having someone elses opinion on which to base my actions. I am never certain of anything myself.

In short, I wanna do the right thing, but I don't know how to go about knoing what it is I think is the right thing, particularly in high pressure situations.

[Mendi the ISFJ]

I have a hard time making decisions too, for mainly the same reason, im trying to be good and do the right thing and avoid conflict but also care a little too much about the opinions of others (for example them not thinking of me as a good person anymore). I recently made the hardest decision of my life and at the time i didnt know what to do, so i reverted to the most logical decision based on the information i had and tried not to dwell too much on my feelings. It was so hard. But while i still question it somewhat i know i made the right decision at the time. Only the future will tell if the decision was the best one in the long run

[Stokholm]

I have problems with this as well. I've had two instances where I took a risk in trying a new approach to usually stressful situations for me and was not pleased with the results. But if I hadn't done something, as is often the course I ride on, I get frustrated with myself for not doing anything, mostly in initiating relationships (I'm a guy, so it's expected of me and I feel that doing nothing comes off more as standoffish rather than intimidated ) but also in advocating my needs to others. When I wish to change this behavior, it usually never happens and when it does, it seems to turn worse in my experiences. My mom always tells me, "You can't steer a ship that isn't moving." The problem with this saying is that I don't like to guide my path. I can safely say that I only get frustrated with myself when it seems like I am expected to take action of make my own decisions when I am usually not able to. We need someone to be loyal to that we know will guide us in this way.

The happiest times in my life are when I was completely dedicated to another person's well-being above my own. In high school I had a very social friend that I followed, and in theater during high school there was one director who I made sure to provide my services to any way I could while my mom was the one helping me with my personal problems. The struggle for me while in college is that I don't have that person that I can be completely dedicated to. If there isn't someone you feel like you 'follow in their wake' and use their internal map to make decisions, then my first suggestion would be to find someone that you know will guide you in the right path. That way you have a course to follow, and when they need a hand, you can prove your worth through your dedication, good listening skills and sincere sympathy that only an ISFJ can provide so well and they'll appreciate you in the long run for it in turn building you up and making you feel better.

I would follow my own advice, and have been trying to, but all the people I know haven't filled this specific niche for me or they have their own follower already or are in a relationship. Just bad luck I guess, which is what I find to usually rely on.

If you're really serious about taking more initiative in your own life, I would suggest trying to talk to a counselor, I am. I'm not suggesting that we are mentally ill, but talking about my problems and getting feedback and 'orders' lets so call them, is the only way we get things done. While the concept of taking care of us might seem strange as we constantly try to help others with the satisfaction that we did 'our job' so to speak giving us all the confidence we need, having someone help us change might be the only way we can do it.

The other problem that we encounter when we try to change is that we simply don't like change. When we've decided something, we like it to remain constant for as long as we can. So when we determine who we are, we plan to stay that way until we die. The important thing we have to realize is that we won't become different if we change. I have to realize this myself as I don't know how that can make sense, but that's the phrase that comes to my mind when I look at my fear of changing who I am, that I'll still be the same me that will always care about others and pride myself on my reliability even more so as I'll be able to demonstrate it more often. The reason why we need someone to help us change is that change puts us on a new course that we don't feel comfortable traveling without someone to guide, us which is the job of a counselor; to guide and control the attempts of change in people in a safe productive manner.

That's my two cents (or maybe five dollars) as to my reflection on my problems which sound parallel to your problems, not completely the same but have the same nature. I hope it isn't too long and if anyone has had any success in our attempts to change ourselves the input would be much appreciated.

[Liminality]

I'm going to start seeing a counsellor in the start of next year. My main problem is I don't like to be dependant on someone else's opinion - I can't be sure that it's always gonna be right, and I dont think I'm excersizing my own free will in never asserting my own will (though I don't know how to reach it yet); in past cases when I've veered from the straight and narrow and asked a new person for advice, the concequences have been worst case scenario - generally my mum is my key to life (With her things tend to be okay; there are no worst case scenarios with her), as I see her as being extreamly reasonable, and generally having a sensible approach. But in situations where I'm alone and I can't reference it, I always choose the safest route. I worry that I'm risking missing out on chances to change things for the better. though taking the much less risky route. I guess I feel out of control in not having a strong enough opinion, when the positive and negative are like 'when one unstoppable force meets an immovable object', or sometimes I just can't choose between them; I feel 'weak' about both and start to feel like I don't know how I feel about anything. Furthermore, while I feel like 'Who am I to make such significant decisions', I realise it is therefore ironic/illogical to think other people (anyone has) have the authority to make such decisions.

[Liminality]

Also (because the edit function doesn't want to work for me right now), when I take the intiative, it seems to go so badly, that not taking the intiative would have been the far better option, even if I'd have done the wrong of not doing anything - which I should, but in hindsight, anything is better than the outcome I create by being active.

[Stokholm]

In response to these recent posts I wished I had more to say besides, 'I agree and feel the same way.' Sadly I can't say more than that but I do wish you the best of luck.

[LeelaWho]

Maybe you could try something like this?

I use this type of journal to conquer the really big problems in my life. I found the 30 topics too much, so I narrowed it down to the 7 biggest problems that I was unhappy about and correlated them to the 7 days of the week. It's easy to review all of my entries to see what worked and what didn't.

For example, my list of topics looks a bit like this:
S: Detoxing from cult and moving on with life
M: Reading/Critical Thinking
T: Housekeeping/Decluttering
W: Social Life
T: (too personal to share)
F: My profession
S: Fitness/Health

I don't like relying on other people's advice/opinions either, but in this I can write about it, mull on it, and either reject it or try it out. So even though it might be another person's idea, I can still accept or reject it on my own terms.

[Lost in Oblivion]

My question is, how can I, and should I trust that it is a good thing to be more certain in life, and with that in mind, how did you ISFJs (Or other types with similar experiences/experiences relating to ISFJs/relevant general advice) battle/deal with this sense of needing some one else point me in the right direction/lacking my own certainties on the issue?

I've worked on becoming more active in terms of conflict between friends, but this doesn't resolve my inner feelings when particular quandries arise - namley on the subject of romantic/sexual advances; dating and intimacy being a bit of an inexplicable phobia of mine; my response is overwhelming and always blinsidingly unexpected and unpredictable; exacerberating the fears of making rash decisions when even the safest can encounter situations where I'll have to deal with intense, suddenly appearing emotions due to romantic advances, or, after particularly unthreatening advances by people I don't really know, quandries over whether I should try to combat it through actively seeking some kind of experience - I can see all the negative possibility so this is highly unlikely to happen, and if so, highly likely to end in disaster in my eyes.

I worry that in asking this, I am looking for an excuse to do something foolish, with the momentum of having someone elses opinion on which to base my actions. I am never certain of anything myself.

In short, I wanna do the right thing, but I don't know how to go about knoing what it is I think is the right thing, particularly in high pressure situations.

Also (because the edit function doesn't want to work for me right now), when I take the intiative, it seems to go so badly, that not taking the intiative would have been the far better option, even if I'd have done the wrong of not doing anything - which I should, but in hindsight, anything is better than the outcome I create by being active.

I think you are looking for a certain balance between being active and sitting back and "taking the safe route." I don't think you need to certainly embody one trait or the other.

Think about this: how involved are you whenever these situations with seemingly disastrous consequences and situations come up? You describe feeling rushes of emotions when certain situations come up. This, in turn, increases your involvement in them - and perhaps there comes a point where you need to detach yourself from each situation and analyze what's given. Instead of "What is right?" ask, "What makes sense?"

Sometimes you can't always do the right thing. And is, in fact, "the right thing" actually the right thing? I recently had to deal with a situation of whether to cut a certain person out of my life. Deep down, I felt, it would be good to stay with this person, so I could help her. But it was also bad for me to stay and have my emotions be constantly abused. Each situation carries its own set of positives and negatives, you just need to determine which set is the best to take.

Now for determining what's best to take, perhaps it would be helpful for you as an ISFJ to look back on your experiences and analyze the patterns between them. When you took X decision, what happened? If Y happened, did Y happen all the time with X decision, or did W and Z also occur? Look at these patterns and think of which possibilities are reasonable. You should also consider what is the "safe" route in actuality. Is the safest route the one that preserves your emotions? Or is it one that brings something else? That is for you to decide.

There needs to be a certain degree of confidence in the imposition of your opinions. Strive forward, considering all things, with the best decision in mind - and maybe your perception of the shortcomings may dwindle. Seek other's opinions on your situation - it's not wrong, but in the end, you need to make your own. Consider all information, from others and your own introspection, and make a decision balanced between what you believe is right, what makes sense, and ultimately, what brings the best result based on these things.

[Mendi the ISFJ]

today i had to make a decision that i felt strongly about (not a lasting decision, thankfully) but i had to decline a request because i knew it was too much of a risk for me. It was hard because i know it was a disappointment for them and i even got some attitude from them. :( i just know deep inside that they dont have any reason to be mad at me... and even if they think im overreacting their happiness is not more important than my safety. Im gonna make myself slippery so the guilt dont stick to me.

[MCRTS]

today i had to make a decision that i felt strongly about (not a lasting decision, thankfully) but i had to decline a request because i knew it was too much of a risk for me. It was hard because i know it was a disappointment for them and i even got some attitude from them. :( i just know deep inside that they dont have any reason to be mad at me... and even if they think im overreacting their happiness is not more important than my safety. Im gonna make myself slippery so the guilt dont stick to me.

Good job Mendi! *hugs* I hope things turn out well for everyone in the situation!