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ISFJ's and Christianity

[ISFJ] 
20K views 66 replies 27 participants last post by  Brown93 
#1 ·
I know, I know....religion and type is a topic that has already been done to death and talked about time and time again.


I also know that there's no clear, direct connection between type and religion. Religion is a personal choice, type is inborn. There are Christian NT's and atheist ISFJ's. Anyone of any type can choose any religion, and people even change religions throughout the course of their lives. There are so many other factors that affect someone's religion other than type, and so much depends on culture, environment and background.


All of that being said, however, I disagree with the notion that there is absolutely no correlation between someone's type and what religion they choose. I haven't seen any formal study, but I'm honestly willing to bet that a greater percentage of ISFJ's are Christian than at least some other types, particularly NT's, or even just N's or P's in general (at least in Western cultures). I have noticed a number of the ISFJ's on PerC are Christians, though we often don't bring it up or speak about it much.


And I think that's because a lot of the teachings of Christianity fit in line with the natural preferences of ISFJ's. I'm not saying that ISFJ's aren't any less prone to sin than any other type, or that ISFJ's don't have desires of the flesh, or that ISFJ's are in any way special. But what I am saying is that the idea of Christianity is probably appealing to ISFJ's in a number of ways.


The first is that in general ISFJ's enjoy pleasing others, particularly those in authority. We in general don't like to stray too much from the path. The idea of serving a God, particularly one who loves us and appreciates everything we do, is an idea that is very fulfilling to us.

The second is the idea of service in general. Christianity is a religion that has a large focus on not only serving God, but also serving others. Many teachings of Jesus support this idea, as do many of Paul. Even if this is hard for us to do a lot of times, it's something we honestly feel obligated to do, and we get a natural fulfillment out of it.

Finally, I think the structure of religion in general, particularly Christianity, gives us comfort. It's very nice to be able to go to a book like the Bible and be able to use it for guidance in our lives. It's nice to have one place to look to


I'm not trying to use type as an excuse for any kind of behavior. But I think that many other people, often of other types, detest this kind of behavior in us. They have a problem with us relying on a source other than ourselves. They view it as mindless, sheeplike and weak.

Of course, as ISFJ's (and Christians) need to learn not to care too much about what others think. It's a balance that we have to strive to find...to listen to others to get input from them, but not to let them control our decisions and choices. The other thing that I think is really nice about Christianity is that really, most of the time when people outside of it have a problem with it, they have a problem with God much more than they do us. There are a few Bible verses that point to this but I don't have the time to look them up now. Sometimes I think we take others' criticisms of God personally, and we forget that God has already said that some people will hate Him.

At the same time, I've also felt that it's important for us to be confident in our own abilities and thoughts...I don't think there's anything in Christianity that teaches against that. There is a big difference between pride and confidence. I think one can still be dependent upon God and still use their own mind to think and solve problems.



Anyway....I'm not meaning to say all ISFJ's are the same and I'm not trying to single out any ISFJ's that are not Christians...for all I know, maybe Christian ISFJ's are in the minority of the ISFJ's on PerC. As I've said, type doesn't dictate anything and is no excuse for anyone to be one way or another about anything.

But I honestly don't think it's purely coincidence. So I just felt like getting these thoughts out, particularly because since religion and type has already been done to death, it's almost felt like an "elephant in the room" that no one on our forum has brought up yet.
 
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#2 ·
I was raised as a Christian, now an atheist. The whole church going thing never really appealed to me. It always felt forced and the people always seemed fake. Even when my faith was at its strongest I never felt the energy others claimed.


--sorry if anyone is offended here but why should religion be exempt from criticism?--
this has nothing to do with hating your god but disagreeing with what's presented in your holy book. (and with a little rationalism on the side..)

As an atheist, I'd encourage people to be more Christlike. Christ seemed to represent humanitarianism. God on the other hand killed people, destroyed civilizations (and flooded the Earth, only for all of humanity to be replenished by probable incest), ordered the genocide of the Midianites, the plundering of their wealth and the taking of their virgin women. Didn't include 'Thou shalt not enslave another human" as a commandment, didn't include "Thou shalt not rape" as a commandment. Spent more time telling people how to properly perform an animal sacrifice in the old testament than he did on giving them any kind of actual insight / thought stoning people for working on the sabbath made sense / thought stoning disobedient children made sense / thought rape victims should marry their rapists. Didn't make sure his book didn't have contradictions so that people like me wouldn't be lead away. God doesn't seem to realize that the religion people choose to follow is more dependent on where the person is born and less to do with who they are and yet I'm sure is willing to send all nonbelievers to be tormented for all eternity anyway. We can get into the existence of dinosaur bones, the extremely in-depth fossil record of life that's no longer here, distant galaxies that are only to be seen with extremely high tech machinery, and the reality that all life seems to have come about naturally...

I've always been a 'why?' person myself and perhaps that's why I have a problem with religion, such as 'why would an all loving god allow babies to be born deformed?' or, 'what is the point of circumcision/genital mutilation?' (In fact there's a story here about a jewish rabbi in new york whom was conducting the circumcisions the old orthodox way by using his mouth to suck the blood from the infant's penis after the cut had been made and he ended up giving herpes to 5 or so of them, 2 of whom later died.) It's stuff like this that the religious should answer for and most never seem to. I can respect the ones who do and yet keep their faith but it's always as if I automatically become the enemy for bringing up questions, which again leads me to make another point against religion in that it invokes conformity and group think rather than freedom of thought.

i could go on.. didn't really start writing with the purpose of ranting in mind but there it is.. not sure if i got off topic or not but yeah, it's not about hate at all, quite the contrary.
 
#21 · (Edited)
As I mentioned in the OP, and as evidenced by people posting in this thread, there can be and often is a lot of diversity concerning religious beliefs among the people of one type. I personally don't think any two people on the planet have the exact same religious beliefs, just like any two people don't have the exact same experiences. It's a very complex question to ask how type has an effect upon one's religious beliefs, if at all. At best it is probably a case by case basis. It's even possible that the Enneagram sheds more light into someone's beliefs than their type.

With all of the points I'm looking to make, I'm not trying to dispute any of these aforementioned points. People are certainly individuals and nothing is going to be certain across a type. My honest guess is that how one's type affects one's religious beliefs is going to be dependent upon that person's experiences. However, I do believe that in some form or fashion MBTI type has some sort of effect.

I've always been a 'why?' person myself and perhaps that's why I have a problem with religion, such as 'why would an all loving god allow babies to be born deformed?' or, 'what is the point of circumcision/genital mutilation?' (In fact there's a story here about a jewish rabbi in new york whom was conducting the circumcisions the old orthodox way by using his mouth to suck the blood from the infant's penis after the cut had been made and he ended up giving herpes to 5 or so of them, 2 of whom later died.) It's stuff like this that the religious should answer for and most never seem to. I can respect the ones who do and yet keep their faith but it's always as if I automatically become the enemy for bringing up questions, which again leads me to make another point against religion in that it invokes conformity and group think rather than freedom of thought.
I find this interesting because this kind of inquisitive nature is usually associated with N types. I'm not saying it's bound strictly to them...everyone uses intuition to some degree, after all. I'm also not binding this kind of thinking strictly to intuition, or to Ne or Ni. However, I do believe that because of this mentality, particularly if you've been this way for a long part of your life, then it's possible that your intuition is stronger than a large number of ISFJ's.

I'm not trying to say that ISFJ's are all blind sheep and that anyone who thinks "outside of the box" or who searches for answers to these kinds of questions are exhibiting non-ISFJ behavior. However, I do believe that our dominant Si (along with our Jness) combined with our auxiliary Fe tends to make us naturally focus more on forming an idea or belief and sticking to it. Usually, it's Ne that drives someone to continually perfect or improve upon the current state of affairs, so this is what leads me to believe that perhaps your Ne has been developed very strongly.


I'm not saying that I or other ISFJ's don't have these thoughts or don't think inquisitively. However, from my own personal standpoint, I can say that they are not the priority in my life or my way of viewing the world. My priority is stability and security, and I believe this aligns heavily with my Si. I don't like to view myself as someone who does not think for myself or ask questions, but I also get great comfort in being able to trust in authority for guidance. Some people view this as weak. But for me, I've grown to the point where that doesn't matter to me...what matters most to me is my own personal satisfaction, joy and peace in life, not what others think of my beliefs.

Again, the reasoning why I am this way is complex, and I can't even say for sure why it is. It's possible it's Enneagram related. I'm skeptical in saying that it's environmental simply because I can't trace it back to anything that I can clearly think of or remember. My mom is an atheist and my dad is kind of a weird mix of an atheist with some Christian beliefs. My brother was raised in the overall same manner as me, and he does not exhibit many of these same natural preferences that I have.

Ever since I can remember, I've gotten an extreme sense of peace and satisfaction from following rules and pleasing authority. While I can trace some of this back to childhood experience, for the most part I see it as something that I've always known. Combined with the descriptions I have read about ISFJ's, not to mention J's, SJ's, and Si (and to some degree, Fe), I see this fitting in with me. This has been a major part of what has led me to think about the topic.

Of course, where type meets experience is where the difference in religious beliefs occur. It's possible that floryshe, sts and other non-religious ISFJ's have these same sorts of feelings and preferences, but that they end up being applied in many other areas apart from religion.

However, as I mentioned, I think the overall inquisitive nature of things is generally more aligned with intuitive functions. Again, I'm not saying that ISFJ's or anyone else can't or shouldn't have any part of this mindset, and I know that it can be connected to things beyond MBTI type or cognitive functions. However, for me personally, I don't see it as my natural preference, and I have a hard time seeing how it fits in with Si or other general ISFJ traits.



floryshe said:
As an atheist, I'd encourage people to be more Christlike. Christ seemed to represent humanitarianism. God on the other hand killed people, destroyed civilizations (and flooded the Earth, only for all of humanity to be replenished by probable incest), ordered the genocide of the Midianites, the plundering of their wealth and the taking of their virgin women. Didn't include 'Thou shalt not enslave another human" as a commandment, didn't include "Thou shalt not rape" as a commandment. Spent more time telling people how to properly perform an animal sacrifice in the old testament than he did on giving them any kind of actual insight / thought stoning people for working on the sabbath made sense / thought stoning disobedient children made sense / thought rape victims should marry their rapists. Didn't make sure his book didn't have contradictions so that people like me wouldn't be lead away. God doesn't seem to realize that the religion people choose to follow is more dependent on where the person is born and less to do with who they are and yet I'm sure is willing to send all nonbelievers to be tormented for all eternity anyway. We can get into the existence of dinosaur bones, the extremely in-depth fossil record of life that's no longer here, distant galaxies that are only to be seen with extremely high tech machinery, and the reality that all life seems to have come about naturally...
This I think is related to what I mentioned earlier about intuition. I certainly have heard all of these arguments before and given them great thought. However, in the end, for me personally, the personal value I hold for my beliefs and how they affect my life outweigh all of the logistical concerns that you have that are more important for you.

For me personally, my beliefs begin with a trust in God because that's what's most important to me. I don't view God in the same way as I view humans, and I don't view God from my own eyes. I don't start at square one and determine if I want to believe in a god or the correctness of what he/she decides to do, even if that's the logical or scientific approach. While this approach certainly has places in my life, my religious beliefs are not one of those places.

This goes back to the trust in authority that I mentioned earlier. My own happiness and peace is greatly connected to this trust. Because none of those situations/commands in the Old Testament are given to me (or Christians) in the same direct manner as many of the commands in the New Testament, I don't see them having an impact on my own life or my own decisions within my religion. I feel as though any actions or commands given by God in the Old Testament are based on God's knowledge of the situation and period, knowledge that I don't have and will not have in this life. My trust and faith in these situations outweigh the perceived appearance of those commands. Of course, if I felt similar commands were given directly to me, I probably would not choose to follow that religion. As you mentioned,the teachings of Jesus and other New Testament writers are to Christians, who have a different set of teachings than those given in the Old Testament. These teachings are more in line with the image of God that leads me to have the trust that I do have in Him.

I once again feel like I can attribute this to some of the descriptions of S vs. N. I focus on what's in my own life affecting me directly much more than what has gone on the past or in areas that don't directly affect my life. I focus on my own personal reality much more than the "big picture". Once again, this is just my focus, preference and priority...it doesn't mean that I don't think about these big picture issues. But my main beliefs are dictated moreso by how they directly affect my own life.


Note, I'm not trying to debate or change your own thoughts or beliefs, I'm merely sharing my own. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to believe as I do in this thread. I'm aware that some people view my beliefs as weak, childish, crazy or even dangerous. As I mentioned, concerning my own personal beliefs, while I can understand someone else holding that view, I put greater priority in my own personal peace than what others think of me. I'm not persuading and in some ways not even defending (at least not on a purely logical level), I'm just describing.

I'm just describing my own natural thoughts and feelings and how I see them appearing to being linked to ISFJ qualities in me. As mentioned earlier, this is certainly not going to be the case for all ISFJ's and how the ISFJ functions affect everyone and their beliefs is going to be different for each person.

floryshe said:
--sorry if anyone is offended here but why should religion be exempt from criticism?--
this has nothing to do with hating your god but disagreeing with what's presented in your holy book. (and with a little rationalism on the side..)

i could go on.. didn't really start writing with the purpose of ranting in mind but there it is.. not sure if i got off topic or not but yeah, it's not about hate at all, quite the contrary.
I won't go into the details here because it's a completely different and detailed topic...but I always feel that if I bring up a topic and choose to discuss it, then I cannot complain about being offended by someone else sharing their thoughts or opinions. However, I think depending on the situation, particularly depending on the relationships between people involved, one should be careful when discussing a topic as personally important to someone as their religious beliefs. This can be true about any personal matter, not just religion...it can be true for family relationships, personal ideals, or even just things that people enjoy or like.
 
#3 ·
"Type is inborn"??? No. It's not. Absolutely, totally, comprehensively, not.
Type is what you are "like". Many people become a type and never change. Many, not all.

My wife is ISFJ and I, myself have occasionally tested as that. I have almost always been concerned with the spiritual.
But my wife had absolutely no leaning in that direction. Now she has, by associating with me.
She adapts. I adapt. We adapt. That means what we are "like" changes.
That means that sometimes we are like ISFJs, if we decide to be that way, at that time.
Adaptability is the key to survival and quality of life.
Be one way: one way is all you know, and all you get.
Be everything: everything is what you get.
 
#4 ·
I'll address floryshe's post when I have more time and energy.

"Type is inborn"??? No. It's not. Absolutely, totally, comprehensively, not.
Type is what you are "like". Many people become a type and never change. Many, not all.
From every MBTI book that I've read, type is inborn. However, type does not dictate who you are as a person, nor your choices or decisions. However, it does dictate your natural preferences, just like being right handed or left handed. Different people are going to have different levels of comfort with either hand, but most have one natural preference.

This does not mean one cannot strengthen the other preference, just like one could strengthen their less dominant hand. However, the actual natural preferences are in born.

I'm not an MBTI expert, I'm just going by what I've read and heard. It also fits in with my own personal experience. My mom told me that even as a toddler, she could see my introversion play out compared to the extroversion of my brothers. She could also see some of my J-ness in my terms of organization. This was not something that she or anyone else taught me, and she didn't do anything explicitly different with me compared to my brothers.

The whole entire thing is very complicated, and no one knows for sure. The psychology of development concerning nature vs. nurture is very cloudy. However, before learning about the MBTI, I used to believe personality was all nurture. Now I have many more doubts about that.
 
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#5 ·
Fair enough. It is wise to cite one's own experience, with authority, as opposed to assuming one's own experience holds true for all.
What I know about myself, above all, is that I am very, very unusual.
Probably it's a good thing that I know this.
Life was hell when I didn't know it.
 
#6 ·
teddy and floryshe, I think you're both on to something here (though you may disagree in some regards). I do think type is a factor in adherence to religion, though it is just that: a factor, not the factor. I've read somewhere that ENTPs are the least likely type to believe in God, while NTs are the least likely temperament to do so. This is probably because their emphasis on logic makes it hard for them to retain faith when confronted with perceived contradictions/errors in religious scripture, or in realization of the existence of other factors pivotal to deciding which religion one follows (time period, culture, family, peers, educators, etc.) They look at all these factors and - if they don't see a logical reason to choose one religion over all the others - likely will not choose one at all (and oftentimes become stupefied by those who do). NFs meanwhile, are probably more likely to consider the various traditions before dismissing them all, or at least will salvage those parts of their own that are most ethical/idealistic and make a very personalized faith of it.

Beyond this, however, I think the most prominent role temperament plays in religious adherence is that of a 'filter' (each type being a slightly different kind of perception) whereby certain aspects of Scripture are given predominance over others and certain passages are interpreted in various different ways, giving rise (over time) to various sects/denominations within a given religious tradition. For instance, as an INFJ Christian (w/ 'iconoclastic' Ni dominance as opposed to 'traditionalist' Si) I have noticed that I identify most with those parts of Scripture where the prophets/Jesus challenge the religious elite of the time, revealing how the establishment has fallen short of the ideal and calling them to reform (which is to say, repentance). I like to be "as shrewd as a snake (N), and as innocent as a dove (F)."
 
#7 ·
not religious. the idea of religion is slightly nauseating to me. not because of any perceived wrongs that churches or places of worship commit, but because of the concept that religion must be mainstreamed. you all must believe the same thing. you all must have a spiritual duty. that duty strips your spiritual wellbeing and places it into a box that punishes you when you do not do as you are told. that is an abuse of the soul. i do not find it to be positive in the slightest. that being said, i could be defined as spiritual.
 
#8 ·
Good post. Excellent, even. You must have done a lot of delving to understand that about your feelings on religion.
I feel similarly. I tried diligently to be a Christian, but ultimately found I could not be.
It left me with a soft-spot for Christians, though, which turns out to be very, very counter-productive.
They are not my allies, no matter how much I try to be theirs.
I remain spiritual, but quite unlike what is usually thought of as spiritual: that is: the appearance of so being, without being it, at all.
 
#9 ·
I think that the concept of humility is naturally understood by the ISFJ. "He who wants to lead must be the servant of all." "Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up." "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." Paradoxical to many, but exemplified by the incarnation of Jesus. Fully God, yet as the ultimate act of mercy, he humbled himself to be born a human, to live and die a mortal life on this earth, and was exalted though his resurrection.

The concept of grace is equally confounding for many, but not so hard for the ISFJ to accept. Grace, the unmerited favor of God, can only be received by those who acknowledge their utter helplessness to be holy through their own effort. "My strength is perfected in your weakness." "Grace comes through faith and not by works, so that none should boast." "Christ in me is to live; to die (to self) is to gain." Again paradoxical and, to many, foolishness. Yet such a treasure to the ISFJ so painfully aware of his own imperfection, who seeks the certainty and reassurance of a perfect Creator, who sees all and will judge all.
 
#10 ·
I tried to join organised religion at several different times in my life, but none of them fit well with me. There was always too much emphasis on the subservience of the female to the male and a strong anti-feminist leaning that sat wrong with me. I didn't like being told that I had to stay home with the children because that was my role and my husband's role was to earn the money. Now, we have come to this in my relationship but it was by choice and after several years in which I was the breadwinner while my husband was the home-maker. Organised religion therefore annoys me. I like the idea of a god or what have you, but I detest the human frailty that denigrates on sex to elevate the other. I hate forced gender roles and I have never found a church that doesn't bind to them in one form or another. For this reason I can't believe in all the religions that I have been exposed to and I am so impatient with the way people get over their religions that I am totally turned off the idea. So I am I guess agnostic by default. That is I think there is more out there than I am aware of but I don't think any human religion has got down correctly what it is out there guiding the world. I don't think it's a being either; I think there is a cosmos and that it all has an effect on everything but it's not an intelligent creature controlling everything. I find this more comforting than every form of religion I have come across.
 
#12 ·
I disagree. I don't rebel against the natural order of things, I rebel against the patriarchal order of things. I'm not going to fight about this, but women being stuck at home not using their resources simply because they are women - that's not natural. There is nothing more unnatural than forcing someone to be less than they truly are just by virtue of their gender.
 
#13 ·
You forget the meaning of love in the sense of family, as it has been throughout history, until very recently, and only in the west.
Men are men because their design suits them for their role as men. And vice versa.
Now nobody knows what they are, who they are, or how to behave.
This is unnatural, and completely unnecessary.
What does "just by virtue of their gender" mean?
Is gender something we are not supposed to notice?
Why are there genders then?
I will stop there. It isn't important enough.
I hope you are feeling a little better after your bad experience.
 
#14 ·
Like I said I'm not going to fight about this. I have strong opinions, you have strong opinions; I doubt we'll ever agree and this is not really the right thread it discuss it, even politely.

I have up days and down days (mostly down, or just coping) and the one lingering product is a sense of impatience with the polite facades of communication. For this reason I'm trying not to engage in debates because I haven't got my usual diplomacy intact and I'd hate to offend someone through bluntness in stating my opinions. I hope I haven't offended you already.
 
#15 ·
Strong OP. Ive always sort of thought this way. Ive always thought "I dont go to church but I live a more ethical/moral life than more "Christians" that I know." I rarely drink. I might go out and get drunk with friends once every 3 months. Which for my age group is not very typical. Sometimes I just kind of honestly wonder where I fit in with my own group of friends, but some how they all enjoy my company and keep me around. Its somewhat weird.

Like mentioned before, I think it is more of our nature to be christ-like just by existing in our type. Im trying to get back into the whole going to church routine because I fully believe that if you put yourself in an environment where people live the lifestyle you would like. It will influence your own life and give you more of what you want.
 
#17 ·
I am a very spiritual person. I love God and grew up that way. I follow Christ's teachings and I love it. I don't know what I would do without having my religion. I don't drink. I've never sworn. I've never stolen. I'm not exactly a orthodox christian because I don't focus completely on rules and the word of God. I like to focus on the feelings. Such as the love that I have for my neighbors and the hope that I have in a new day. If I love my neighbor, I won't lie to them. If I have hope in Christ atonement I can keep bettering myself everyday. I would consider myself a devout Christian. Although, I have had doubts, my testimony of the truth of the gospel has always been strong enough to counter those doubts.
 
#33 ·
The 10 Commandments were specifically addressed to Israel. There is no reason to think they ever really applied to Gentiles. Judaism has long taught that that the rest of us are only bound by the 7 Noahide Laws, and even those though are but commentary on the Greatest Commandment and the Great Commandment and only do any good if followed out of love.


34(AM) But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced(AN) the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35(AO) And one of them,(AP) a lawyer, asked him a question(AQ) to test him. 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And he said to him, (AR) "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And(AS) a second is like it:(AT) You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40(AU) On these two commandments depend(AV) all the Law and the Prophets."
 
#23 ·
I think that the different types will have many different reasons for choosing what faith they practice (or not to practice). I can't say much more.

As an ISXJ and a very strong Si-user, I think I get some of where teddy is coming from. I think that because there is no way of proving whether or not God exists, it is of no use to me to question the possibilities about the how the world was created or whether God exists. After all, the Bible could have some metaphors in it, I don't think it is to be taken literally. Religion for me relates to how it makes me feel and how I can become a better person. I don't care if the Bible has some inconsistencies in it.

Unfortunately, I have trouble grasping the emotional appeal of Christianity, and fall victim to lukewarm practice of the faith and not being a better person. I would never describe myself as being a spiritual person, unlike some of the posters above have described. I feel like the most important thing to me is my moral compass, which was instilled in me by living in a somewhat-Christian family and by life experience, and which determines what I think is ethical. My moral compass doesn't really appear to be a spiritual matter though. Maybe God's just too much of an abstract being for me to relate to or care about?
 
#24 ·
I was raised Christian(Episcopalian) I still believe it, or most of it. But I'm feeling a void right now in many areas and it's hard to relate to figure out. I kind of agree, I think ISFJ's are able to connect and understand Christianity better, but I don't feel that everyone will be the same.
 
#25 ·
I am an atheist.

I was raised without religion. Choosing to "believe" in atheism was my own decision. It was later that I discovered both my parents (ISFJ mother and ENTP father) were atheists as well (interestingly, both were raised religious).

On certain topics, religion included, I choose to refrain from expressing my complete views because I feel that it is not my place to do so. I am simply posting to include myself amongst a statistic.
 
#27 ·
I've been thinking about this and wanted to add some things. Firstly, about myself. I guess you could say that I've been an atheist all my life, though I wouldn't want to label it as such. Where I'm from it's the opposite around - either you are religious (adding a label) or you're not, in which case a label isn't necessary. I feel that I understand religion much better now than I did before, I see a lot of value in it and I'm perplexed by the idea of God. I now see that "God" could have a place in my view of the world, but it wouldn't be anything like popular belief. It would be my own decision based upon my own observations/perceptions.

Now about the topic at hand and the connection between ISFJs and Christianity. Taking a function approach to this question, it's, imo a quality of Si. We take in the world in bits and pieces and juggle with it and we give it our own interpretation of it. We map it out. It may or may not be true, it may or may not be religious, yet we have a relatively good understanding of the world and what it's made of due to Si. We puzzle with sensing data and personal truths. Furthermore, Christianity brings up ISFJ values, I believe that Jesus had a nature that's shared by many ISFJs. (Sharing the virtues of love and helping, basically.)

I hear people say that we (SJ's/ISFJ's) are religious because we're born into it following "traditions" and family orientation and because we're stupid - to be blunt. I disagree. On the first point - regarding a specific religion, like Christianity, we obviously have to be exposed to it somehow to follow it. But we're not following tradition, rather we (may)see that religion holds many truths and much wisdom. It goes hand-in-hand with how we perceive the world. The second point doesn't hold up, still, I'd say that it's indeed more about perception than thinking. They are different things.
 
#29 ·
Now about the topic at hand and the connection between ISFJs and Christianity. Taking a function approach to this question, it's, imo a quality of Si. We take in the world in bits and pieces and juggle with it and we give it our own interpretation of it. We map it out. It may or may not be true, it may or may not be religious, yet we have a relatively good understanding of the world and what it's made of due to Si. We puzzle with sensing data and personal truths. Furthermore, Christianity brings up ISFJ values, I believe that Jesus had a nature that's shared by many ISFJs. (Sharing the virtues of love and helping, basically.)
This is interesting. I'm not sure why religious faith would be a product of Si - and if it is does that mean my Si is defective? I'm really not meaning to argue here - I genuinely struggle with this. What makes me not share this faith? Every test I've done has come out with a strong Si but is that just me fooling myself? I don't know.

I do agree that Jesus has values that I approve of and like to emulate. But I like to emulate them not because of faith or because he's the son of god or whatever, but because they are respectful and genuine and he lived his life giving towards other people the way I think people should do. That doesn't change whether I believe in the faith or not. Good morals and values are good regardless of whatever they are from a religious standpoint or a personal one. Not that anyone in this thread has said it, but the one thing I hate the most is when some religious person tells me that I am morally bankrupt because I don't believe. I disagree - I share a lot of the same values and try to treat people in the same way and I don't think you need religion to be a good moral or ethical person.
 
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#28 ·
As a teenager I rejected the faith I was brought up in, embraced feminism and atheism, and felt quite superior to those who couldn't deal with the existential truth. I firmly held that life in general was random, that my life had no meaning apart from what I thought or did, and death was the end. By the time I reached grad school, I was severely depressed, felt morally bankrupt, and looked for meaningful connection with others through partying and promiscuous sex. I was crossing streets without looking because why would getting killed by a car matter?

Then I met a guy who turned my world on its head. I told him I knew the existential truth, and that religious faith was a crutch for those too weak to face it. He smiled, nodded his head, and said, "I love my crutch." That was the beginning of a long series of conversations in which all my smug assumptions about belief, God and meaning were challenged. He loaned me books by C.S. Lewis that made me think more. My friend said to me, "If you seek God, you will find him. Why not consider the possibility that he exists? Just ask him, with sincerity, to show himself to you."

So those were the first steps of a journey that led me first to the Creator God, then to the Holy Spirit, and finally to Jesus the Christ. I questioned and struggled each step of the way. I had to confront and unlearn all of the human "wisdom" that I had bought into during my adolescence and early 20s. My faith is not something I grew up breathing, like a fish in water. It's not a tradition that I followed without question. It's a personal, loving relationship with the God who called me and brought me to Himself.
 
#59 ·
As a teenager I rejected the faith I was brought up in, embraced feminism and atheism, and felt quite superior to those who couldn't deal with the existential truth. I firmly held that life in general was random, that my life had no meaning apart from what I thought or did, and death was the end. By the time I reached grad school, I was severely depressed, felt morally bankrupt, and looked for meaningful connection with others through partying and promiscuous sex. I was crossing streets without looking because why would getting killed by a car matter?

Then I met a guy who turned my world on its head. I told him I knew the existential truth, and that religious faith was a crutch for those too weak to face it. He smiled, nodded his head, and said, "I love my crutch." That was the beginning of a long series of conversations in which all my smug assumptions about belief, God and meaning were challenged. He loaned me books by C.S. Lewis that made me think more. My friend said to me, "If you seek God, you will find him. Why not consider the possibility that he exists? Just ask him, with sincerity, to show himself to you."

So those were the first steps of a journey that led me first to the Creator God, then to the Holy Spirit, and finally to Jesus the Christ. I questioned and struggled each step of the way. I had to confront and unlearn all of the human "wisdom" that I had bought into during my adolescence and early 20s. My faith is not something I grew up breathing, like a fish in water. It's not a tradition that I followed without question. It's a personal, loving relationship with the God who called me and brought me to Himself.
I don't feel I need to read further, though I certainly will. This pretty much sums it up for me. Thank you.
 
#31 ·
Right. Si probably isn't a factor in becoming religious but probably has to do more with being less willing to change. Not that we wont change but for me, personally, on this issue, it took a very long time and a lot of reasoning for me to feel comfortable calling myself an atheist. Whereas, with our opposites, I remember an ENTP saying you know you're an entp when you change your political party 3 times in one day. Maybe I'm reading too much into it lol but that seems opposite of our sometimes... heavily expressed stubbornness.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I also know that there's no clear, direct connection between type and religion. Religion is a personal choice, type is inborn. There are Christian NT's and atheist ISFJ's. Anyone of any type can choose any religion, and people even change religions throughout the course of their lives. There are so many other factors that affect someone's religion other than type, and so much depends on culture, environment and background.
ISFJ's are the type most likely to believe in God. That does not necessarily mean they are most likely to be Christian though, and we all have freewill. A lot of ISFJ's(and people in general) have a belief of God that falls similar to Christianity, and so they often claim it. One of the problems ISFJ's have most often with Christianity is the concept of hell.


All of that being said, however, I disagree with the notion that there is absolutely no correlation between someone's type and what religion they choose. I haven't seen any formal study, but I'm honestly willing to bet that a greater percentage of ISFJ's are Christian than at least some other types, particularly NT's, or even just N's or P's in general (at least in Western cultures). I have noticed a number of the ISFJ's on PerC are Christians, though we often don't bring it up or speak about it much.
I would love to be in community with my ISFJ brethren. I think it would be a good idea to talk about our faith more and hang out more. "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."(Proverbs 27:17 NIV)


And I think that's because a lot of the teachings of Christianity fit in line with the natural preferences of ISFJ's. I'm not saying that ISFJ's aren't any less prone to sin than any other type, or that ISFJ's don't have desires of the flesh, or that ISFJ's are in any way special. But what I am saying is that the idea of Christianity is probably appealing to ISFJ's in a number of ways.


The first is that in general ISFJ's enjoy pleasing others, particularly those in authority. We in general don't like to stray too much from the path. The idea of serving a God, particularly one who loves us and appreciates everything we do, is an idea that is very fulfilling to us.
I understand what you are saying here, but I disagree. I believe that ISFJ's have a desire to serve, and that this desire often translates to those in authority. However, I do not believe that we particularly want to serve "authority". Its a common misconception that I see. ISFJ's only follow the status quo as long as we deem it good. As feelers, we only put others a head of ourselves that we see "worthy" if you will. Christianity teaches us to put all others before ourself, and most importantly, put Jesus Christ first.

Honestly, I have always had slight trouble with authority. Not that I would misbehave or anything, but I would often undermine the authority of those I saw in the wrong AND being harmful(whether physically, emotionally, or mentally). There are times to speak up, but I would often speak up or rebel in times when was not good. It is something I have had to work on.

The second is the idea of service in general. Christianity is a religion that has a large focus on not only serving God, but also serving others. Many teachings of Jesus support this idea, as do many of Paul. Even if this is hard for us to do a lot of times, it's something we honestly feel obligated to do, and we get a natural fulfillment out of it.
Once again, I think we only get fulfillment out of serving if we see value in it. We will often begrudgingly serve, because we know it is the right thing, but when we truly see value in it does in fill us. Now in Christ, we can always have fulfillment in serving as when we are serving others, we are serving Christ, and He is always worth it.

Finally, I think the structure of religion in general, particularly Christianity, gives us comfort. It's very nice to be able to go to a book like the Bible and be able to use it for guidance in our lives. It's nice to have one place to look to
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27 NIV) Christianity is a relationship, religion(in the confines of biblical practices) can be apart of that, as long as it does not distract or go against the Word. Its a misnomer however to call Christianity a religion. The "structure" of "religion" is not what gives Christians(ISFJ or not) comfort, but it is Jesus Christ who is our Comforter. The Bible is the written Word and is what we cling to, but we must also follow the Holy Spirit, for He is the Helper, and it is by Him that we even understand the Scripture.



I'm not trying to use type as an excuse for any kind of behavior. But I think that many other people, often of other types, detest this kind of behavior in us. They have a problem with us relying on a source other than ourselves. They view it as mindless, sheeplike and weak.
ISFJ's are often seen as not thinking for themselves, and only capable of doing what others tell them. This comes from a general lack of understanding and is far from the truth. The inner world of the ISFJ is so hard to get a glimpse at, that most people do not even realize it exists. It is a rich, complex, and spectacular world. If anything ISFJ's are prone to over-thinking things. This rarely reaches the surface in any way that can be followed by observation and so their thoughts rarely seem connect, and some will say that we lack the ability to think for ourselves because of this.


Sometimes I think we take others' criticisms of God personally, and we forget that God has already said that some people will hate Him.
I like using these times as witnessing opportunities.

At the same time, I've also felt that it's important for us to be confident in our own abilities and thoughts...I don't think there's anything in Christianity that teaches against that. There is a big difference between pride and confidence. I think one can still be dependent upon God and still use their own mind to think and solve problems.
I do think that we should be sure of the gifts given to us by God, but because our confidence is in Him. Thoughts on the other hand we need to test. I do not approve of over-thinking, but we have to realize that not all of our thoughts are our own. I do agree with the last statement, God did give us a rational mind, we are not robots, but all things, even our thoughts, should be glorifying to Jesus Christ.

"27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him"(1 Corinthians 1:27-29 NIV)
 
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