[EmotionallyTonedGeometry]

Howdy. Just popping in these parts of the forum to get some advice on communication.

My wife is an ISFJ and we have been having difficulty communicating when I attempt to give her advice. As a Ti/Ne, my advice comes in the form of noticing when things are inefficient and bring this up in a neutral, conversational manner in the hopes that through discussion and reason, whomever I’m talking to will notice what I have noticed and react accordingly. Too easy… for an INTP.

I have found that when I communicate like this with my ISFJ wife, she tends to get a little upset (some times more than others). I see it as a combination of her Si/Fe. She tends to make decisions and consider information through her Si (details of past experiences) and Fe (emotional resonance with reality). It seems that when I casually notice something and bring it to her attention, she takes this as an affront to her Si so what I believe is neutral advice comes across as a domineering attack on her past experiences, her methods and emotional sensibilities. This is exacerbated all the more when our two views on a situation have little or no common ground. I suppose then I tend to be a bit dismissive.

I think I answered a little bit of my own question in writing this, but how would you ISFJs deal with an INTP jerk like me? Also, how do you ISFJs take advice, and what is the best form it can take? How can I get my help to not come across as a personal attack on her methods? Any and all comments are appreciated. I figure I’ve got the rest of my life to live with this woman, so I’d better take every opportunity to find ways to smooth out our communication.

[teddy564339]

I think I answered a little bit of my own question in writing this, but how would you ISFJs deal with an INTP jerk like me? Also, how do you ISFJs take advice, and what is the best form it can take? How can I get my help to not come across as a personal attack on her methods? Any and all comments are appreciated. I figure I’ve got the rest of my life to live with this woman, so I’d better take every opportunity to find ways to smooth out our communication.

ISFJ's really do have a tendency to get hurt easily. I know that I have a tendency to take things too seriously and I can have trouble taking criticism in a positive way.

I think a couple of things that always help me is to know that someone completely loves me and accepts me for who I am. When I have full confidence of that, I understand that when they give advice, they're only trying to help me. But if I don't have that trust with someone, I take the advice as a judgment that I'm not good enough and something is wrong with me.

So I think it's key to constantly make sure you say positive things about your wife, show support for her, and make sure she knows you love her. That way, when it's time for you to give advice and help her, she'll see it as that, not as an attack.

ISFJ's, like other SJ's, can be very stubborn and set in their ways. And for ISFJ's that's because that's where we're comfortable. Even if we see some minor problems with what we do, we're willing to accept them if they're not a big deal. By changing, we're always risking what we know.

So I think the key thing to about getting an ISFJ to change something is to very clearly show them how the change will be an improvement in their lives. If they can see those clear positives, they're much more likely to consider changing.



Also, I got this book recently, and any time someone asks a relationship question I break it out because it seems to give really insightful advice.

Amazon.com: Just Your Type: Create the Relationship You've Always Wanted Using the Secrets of Personality Type (9780316845694): Paul D. Tieger, Barbara Barron-Tieger: Books


It basically has a section on each type and how a relationship of that type and all 16 of the types would work. For every pairing, it has paragraphs on the "joys" and the "frustrations". But most helpfully it also gives a list of things each of the two types can do for each other.


Here's what it says INTP's should do for ISFJ's:

-Make an effort to get to know the people your partner cares about. Listen carefully for details about co-workers, family, and friends, and respond to discussions about them.

-Express your appreciation for the myriad ways your partner takes good care of you, your home, and your family.

-Be patient with your partner's sensitivity and need for harmony in all his or her relationships.

-Respect your partner by accommodating his or her need for structure and routine.

-Initiate discussions about feelings and values. If you need time to think things through before sharing, tell your partner--don't just clam up.

-Try to pick up after yourself, pull your own weight regarding chores, and finish projects you start.

-Watch your tendency to be dismissive and superior.



Here's what it says ISFJ's should do for INTP's:

-Be willing to listen and learn about your partner's interests and pursuits. Try to understand enough to share his or her passions.

-Try to be more adventurous inside and outside of the bedroom. Let your partner show you some unexpected pleasures and experiences.

-Discuss your concerns and needs clearly, directly, honestly, and calmly.

-Try to relax and occasionally put off what you could do today but can wait until tomorrow so you can play with your partner.

-Always be open and truthful about how you feel. Avoid games.

-Compliment your partner on his or her achievements and competencies.

-Don't force intimate conversations, but do tell your partner how much you appreciate it when he or she opens up and shares.

-Try to let go of some social or external expectations. Trust that important things will get done -- but perhaps not exactly when or how you planned.




Hope this helps!

[Rowan]

Howdy. Just popping in these parts of the forum to get some advice on communication.

My wife is an ISFJ and we have been having difficulty communicating when I attempt to give her advice. As a Ti/Ne, my advice comes in the form of noticing when things are inefficient and bring this up in a neutral, conversational manner in the hopes that through discussion and reason, whomever I’m talking to will notice what I have noticed and react accordingly. Too easy… for an INTP.

I have found that when I communicate like this with my ISFJ wife, she tends to get a little upset (some times more than others). I see it as a combination of her Si/Fe. She tends to make decisions and consider information through her Si (details of past experiences) and Fe (emotional resonance with reality). It seems that when I casually notice something and bring it to her attention, she takes this as an affront to her Si so what I believe is neutral advice comes across as a domineering attack on her past experiences, her methods and emotional sensibilities. This is exacerbated all the more when our two views on a situation have little or no common ground. I suppose then I tend to be a bit dismissive.

I think I answered a little bit of my own question in writing this, but how would you ISFJs deal with an INTP jerk like me? Also, how do you ISFJs take advice, and what is the best form it can take? How can I get my help to not come across as a personal attack on her methods? Any and all comments are appreciated. I figure I’ve got the rest of my life to live with this woman, so I’d better take every opportunity to find ways to smooth out our communication.

I dealt with an INTP jerk-and we are no more. The fact that you are asking for help with communication kind of makes you not a jerk, in my humble opinion

I think it is wonderful though that you acknowledge personality types-that is such a great start!

I agree with Teddy. Trust and love are key for me to be able to take advice constructively. Also, if there is any tone or attitude underlying said advice, I am not listening. If I feel you are trying to conform me to how you think, I am resistant. And pushing some piece of advice at me again and again is not good. I guess if you can show that you do value her and her opinion (positive reinforcement, but it should be honest too.....!) consistently, and show you are not trying to change her for selfish reasons, that would be best. Words are very good for positive reinforcement. Women need to be fed, and words are a great food.

So be loving and patient and compassionate. Try and see through her eyes, put yourself in her shoes. I know it's awkward, but give it a go. I think it is great you realise why she is taking offense.

Also, I have found that sometimes I just don't clue in to the advice due to how it is delivered. So maybe if you are saying it one way, try to phrase it a different way. I have had many 'aha!' moments when the my ex used different words, or I guess a different approach to sharing advice. Or if he left it with me for awhile and gave me time to cool down from my irrational emotional flare-up, sometimes that helped clarify things for me, and I could gain a bit of logic and understanding as to what he was actually trying to say.

Drop the dismissive part. Find some common ground.

Good luck. I wish you and your loved one all the best on this journey!

[EmotionallyTonedGeometry]

@Teddy: The Book's in the mail! I look forward to reading it.

@Rowan: "If I feel you are trying to conform me to how you think, I am resistant." This is the strange, irrational response that I do not understand. I see this as just a natural consequence of Si. If you could elaborate on all of the detail about how and why you respond this way, I would be indebted to you.

[Seralya]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, only widen its scope a little.

Is there any way to give advice or suggestions to an ISFJ one has only known a limited time?

My problem explained:
I am ISTP (with quite strong N thou, so I should be able to relate to advice given to an INTP) and I need to get along a work mate, one that I suspect being an ISFJ. She is supposed to tutor me but we can't seem to find a common language, and after reading some information here I get a bit afraid that I might hurt her when I can't take in the information in the way she wants to present it.

Usually she advices me to do a job in a certain way. I want to know why. She tells me "because it's so" and "it's like this, believe me". She surely means well, but it comes across as she'd attempt to control me to detail (maybe because she doesn't trust me?) instead of helping me to understand the job. However, she will not be accountable of my possible mistakes; I am. This is why I need to be able to explain why I did something the way I did and "she told me so" doesn't hold in court.

Can I ask her to take my views in the account or is the best solution just dodge the tutoring sessions and ask other people to help me instead?

[teddy564339]

Usually she advices me to do a job in a certain way. I want to know why. She tells me "because it's so" and "it's like this, believe me". She surely means well, but it comes across as she'd attempt to control me to detail (maybe because she doesn't trust me?) instead of helping me to understand the job. However, she will not be accountable of my possible mistakes; I am. This is why I need to be able to explain why I did something the way I did and "she told me so" doesn't hold in court.

To be honest, I don't think ISFJ's are very good when it comes to leadership. I know I tend to be a bit of a control freak just because I'm afraid of the same thing that you are...that if someone doesn't do something a certain way, then I'll be the one who's responsible. I feel like if someone working for me does something wrong, I'll get in trouble. I think that's why ISFJ's are really bad at delegating tasks. And we are known for finding something that works for us and sticking to it...I know I'd be afraid of someone doing something a certain way and risking it being a worse way.

So I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't trust you, but it's probably not personal...she probably wouldn't trust anyone in your position (at least if she's anything like me).

Can I ask her to take my views in the account or is the best solution just dodge the tutoring sessions and ask other people to help me instead?

Both sound like a good idea, but when you say "take your views into account" I don't know if that would be as effective as you telling her about how you think all of this will affect you personally. I hate to resort to thinker/feeler stereotypes, because ISFJ's, like all feelers, can be persuaded by logic. But I know that I'm more likely to budge on something like this if someone tells me more about how they're feeling. Kind of like you just did...how you know that you're responsible for your own job and that you would feel horribly if you did something in a way that you disagreed with and got in trouble for it. If she's like me, that will strike more of a chord than trying to logically convince her that you think your way will work better for you.

So I guess you could maybe try appealing to her feeling side, and if that does no good, then definitely dodge the sessions and try to find someone else. Like I said, I don't think ISFJ's are very good working outside of their comfort zones.

[Rowan]

@Teddy: The Book's in the mail! I look forward to reading it.

@Rowan: "If I feel you are trying to conform me to how you think, I am resistant." This is the strange, irrational response that I do not understand. I see this as just a natural consequence of Si. If you could elaborate on all of the detail about how and why you respond this way, I would be indebted to you.

ETG-I don't know how much of my statement is directed at the INTP part of my ex, or if there was something else at play. In my specific case, I was definitely suppressed and expected to conform. Words were his weapon of manipulation, and for the most part how I thought was poo poo'd and dismissed.

I guess if you acknowledge how she thinks and feels in a positive light first, that could set the table for possible acceptance of advice. I think you just have to find the right way to deliver it to her. I wonder too if it has to do with the fear of being taken advantage of? The small amount I have read-and the large amount of my experience indicates some like to treat ISFJ's like doormats. In other words, she is probably more than willing to help you out with something, to make you feel better. But when it comes to you 'targeting' her, the shields go up. Defense mechanism perhaps? As I type this, I am mulling it over.....I am typing out loud so to speak. Really it goes back to what was first said: trust and love need to be there. And the knowledge she is being accepted for HER, and you are not trying to change the core her. You are trying to improve how she does some things, but you are not trying to take away her ISFJ-ness......kind of wish someone could take away mine....

Sigh. I don't know if this helped you at all, I feel it was more of a ramble than anything. I hope you were able to get something out of it.

Keep me posted on how things go if you want.

I wish you the best.

[Rowan]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, only widen its scope a little.

Is there any way to give advice or suggestions to an ISFJ one has only known a limited time?

My problem explained:
I am ISTP (with quite strong N thou, so I should be able to relate to advice given to an INTP) and I need to get along a work mate, one that I suspect being an ISFJ. She is supposed to tutor me but we can't seem to find a common language, and after reading some information here I get a bit afraid that I might hurt her when I can't take in the information in the way she wants to present it.

Usually she advices me to do a job in a certain way. I want to know why. She tells me "because it's so" and "it's like this, believe me". She surely means well, but it comes across as she'd attempt to control me to detail (maybe because she doesn't trust me?) instead of helping me to understand the job. However, she will not be accountable of my possible mistakes; I am. This is why I need to be able to explain why I did something the way I did and "she told me so" doesn't hold in court.

Can I ask her to take my views in the account or is the best solution just dodge the tutoring sessions and ask other people to help me instead?

I wonder if she is acting this way because when you question her she is taking it personally and thinks you are questioning HER. Can you explain to her that you are asking so you have a better understanding of the job? You are not second-guessing her per-say, just trying to clarify it for yourself. ISFJ's like to help. lol I hope this helped.......