[Expat in Japan]

Nothing in common? Not 100% true. Depends upon what.

For me and my wife, we can talk about daily events, news, our children, household decisions and family plans fine. Actually well.

Yet, what news events mean to society/the world do not create satisfying talks. How to educate and how/why to bring up our children...what things mean...are difficult topics.

Money? I avoid this one now. Hopeless.



In general....we are good housemates. Do our best in co-parenting.

[Lady K]

I think that most of us will agree that it's really going to depend on the individuals. I myself have found that I generally have a hard time making a serious heartfelt connection with INTJs. I'm fairly certain that my daughter's father is one, and while we made a baby.. we did little else together. We lived together for awhile, and it worked out just fine as long as we didn't try to be compatible with each other. We were comfortable being around each other and doing our own thing, but like, if we decided to spend time together it was always a concession from one of us. I liked one kind of movie, he liked another, he didn't like to go out too much, but I did. Little things like that. We disagreed on most things... when I think about it now, I wonder how I managed to have sex with him...

Romance is about a connection with me. I want to feel like my partner understands me and my feelings, and even if he or she doesn't like them all the time, or even agree with them, I just want to know that they care. That they get me. I've never felt that an INTJ can get me, nor have I felt that I could understand an INTJ. That's not to say that ISFJs and INTJs can't understand each other, it's just that I personally have never felt it.

[krwheel]

I have a good friend that is an INTJ. He and I worked together for a couple years and it was a slow developing friendship. I think that was because these are two personalities that have a very hard time relating to the inner world of the other. We evaluate things so differently and value very different things. I think the thing that got us to be friendly was sense of humor. Intuitive thinkers just have these crazy ideas and can keep building them up, so when that's applied to something humorous he gets me in a stitch, I'm usually laughing so hard. My sense of humor comes from my senses, things I've picked up via sensory detail and then being able to mimic things in a humorous way. I think that got us comfortable with each other and then we realized that that can apply to discussing things in each other's lives. Because he is married to a feeler, I can help him understand the feeling side of things and how to at least behave like he has some empathy and isn't trying to fix feelings like they're a problem that needs to be solved. And on the other hand, he's helped me see some logic in life so I can be more aware of decisions that will be better (which has save me some feeler grief).

I can't see myself getting romantically involved with an INTJ though. It would be too sterile and unaffectionate.

As far as the introvert with an introvert thing. I really don't think that's a problem. In fact, it would be easier to manage, because introverts have smaller circles of friends and so they would be less stressed out. I know that when I've dated extroverts, I've either had a hard time keeping up, or I've just had to tell them to go do their extrovert thing and leave me to my books for a while. It's really only a problem if you view introversion as a disease that extroverts need to cure us of.

[Expat in Japan]

I think that most of us will agree that it's really going to depend on the individuals.

I want to feel like my partner understands me and my feelings, and even if he or she doesn't like them all the time, or even agree with them, I just want to know that they care. That they get me. I've never felt that an INTJ can get me, nor have I felt that I could understand an INTJ. That's not to say that ISFJs and INTJs can't understand each other, it's just that I personally have never felt it.

Dear Lady K,

Thank you for your post. I agree it does depend, but you have at least helped confirm that there is another ISFJ-INTJ relationship that mirrors mine...for many similar reasons. I feel a bit better actually.

"Getting" someone has never felt impossible before. Of course there are certain degrees, but with my wife...even just last night. She said something to me and I couldn't understand why she said what she said. (It was about my son's kindergarten.) So I asked, "Why did you just tell me that?" I was looking for purpose. She was giving information. Then we both felt as if the other didn't "get it". Very disheartening.

You also mentioned romance and sex. For half of our marriage now, both have been non-existent. You wrote about your daughter's father. Yes, precisely. I also see us as parents of two children, not so much husband and wife.

[Lady K]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you marry her? In my situation, I got pregnant accidentally, and I honestly did figure that I would just marry her father. Six months into my pregnancy I just couldn't handle it. I was so hurt and depressed by our lack of connection and the little time that we spent together that I just knew I'd be unhappy for the rest of my life if I married him. I left him.

Sometimes, I regret the decision, but then I remember how I felt in those days. He can't take them back, and the feelings I felt at the time won't ever go away. He's a wonderful father to our child, and I'm very proud of him for that. But I know that he and I would never be happy together. He might be happy, because being a family would be the right thing to do, but I would never be happy. Even now, when I'm around him, I feel lost, disconnected. I still have trouble talking to him. We stick strictly to stuff involving our daughter. Even then we get confused with each other! :P

Anyways, I'm just curious why you decided to stay/get married if you don't feel that sort of thing with her. I mean, I agree that the rest of the stuff is good. It's good to have a partner that you can get along with and live with.. but from an ISFJ perspective, having a partner you can't feel connected with seems wrong to me. I'm surprised that she would allow that to happen. Or maybe I'm just the odd one out.

[Expat in Japan]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you marry her?
...from an ISFJ perspective, having a partner you can't feel with seems wrong to me. I'm surprised that she would allow that to happen. Or maybe I'm just the odd one out.

Hi Lady K,

As we all know, no decisions are easy or made lightly...or understandably. I decided to marry her because she was different than my previous relationships. She laughed a lot and seemed light-hearted. A balance many of my friends had told me that I needed. She also seemed like a mature woman...a good head on her shoulders. She had a sense of reality (the here and now) that perhaps I did (do?) not. It took 18 months or so before I became truly soul searching about our differences.

To add to the mix, she is Japanese and I am American. At the beginning of the marriage, I analyzed everything from many different perspectives....new marriage, culture, gender, personality....and then I tried to mix and match to understand what was what. In the end, I finally came to grips that things were "her" and "me". During this chaos we bought a house -- a very Japanese approach to stability. Then she quit work because of her stress...which created more stress for her. She is extremely money-minded. New house, one worker and I felt that I was to blame for her stress about money.

Thinking about getting out of the marriage at the time was problematic for me. I had made a commitment to our marriage and to her family. We bought a house. She stopped working due to stress. Sex started to dwindle because of her stress. I do have a nurturing side to me, which can take on the mask of challenge/job. I went to action. I went to grad school and began a career here in Japan.

Thinking commitment, long term we started to try to have a child. Fast forward to year 5 of the marriage, we adopted a boy. Then we adopted again in marriage year 8.

Just last December I finally began to realize the signs of my own depression. Now I am trying to figure things out the best as I can...and I found this forum.

People like you are helping me understand as well as provide support. Thank you.

[Lady K]

That's a really amazing story, and I'm glad you are able to share it with us. It sounds a lot like what my life would have been like if I had married my INTJ. I don't know if I would have been so stressed, but possibly (I have a tendency to not realize I'm stressed and I just let things flow over me).

I don't know if I have any good answers for you, but I love to listen, and hopefully eventually I (or someone else here) can offer advice, if that is what you're looking for. We're all here for you. :)

[Mina]

Hi Lady K,

As we all know, no decisions are easy or made lightly...or understandably. I decided to marry her because she was different than my previous relationships. She laughed a lot and seemed light-hearted. A balance many of my friends had told me that I needed. She also seemed like a mature woman...a good head on her shoulders. She had a sense of reality (the here and now) that perhaps I did (do?) not. It took 18 months or so before I became truly soul searching about our differences.

To add to the mix, she is Japanese and I am American. At the beginning of the marriage, I analyzed everything from many different perspectives....new marriage, culture, gender, personality....and then I tried to mix and match to understand what was what. In the end, I finally came to grips that things were "her" and "me". During this chaos we bought a house -- a very Japanese approach to stability. Then she quit work because of her stress...which created more stress for her. She is extremely money-minded. New house, one worker and I felt that I was to blame for her stress about money.

Thinking about getting out of the marriage at the time was problematic for me. I had made a commitment to our marriage and to her family. We bought a house. She stopped working due to stress. Sex started to dwindle because of her stress. I do have a nurturing side to me, which can take on the mask of challenge/job. I went to action. I went to grad school and began a career here in Japan.

Thinking commitment, long term we started to try to have a child. Fast forward to year 5 of the marriage, we adopted a boy. Then we adopted again in marriage year 8.

Just last December I finally began to realize the signs of my own depression. Now I am trying to figure things out the best as I can...and I found this forum.

People like you are helping me understand as well as provide support. Thank you.

I think the biggest thing you have to ask yourself at this point is whether you are happy or not. I know there are kids involved, but (in more ways than one) they will benefit a lot more from having a happy healthy father.

If you aren't happy at this point, but truly want to try and make things work, then maybe you and your wife both can go to counseling. Maybe you both just need somebody to talk to.

I wish you well.

[Expat in Japan]

... a happy healthy father.

If you aren't happy at this point, but truly want to try and make things work, then maybe you and your wife both can go to counseling. Maybe you both just need somebody to talk to.

I wish you well.

Thank you and Lady K for the kind, supportive words. I have mentioned counseling to her, but in Japan it is not common or really accepted, but a few years ago I went for a few sessions only to clear my head. I needed to know that I wasn't wrong in my perceptions of things. I am going back to talk with a bilingual/bicultural counselor next week. The insight will be nice and the pin-prick of the hole will help me release a bit of my mind.

My kids and I have a great relationship, but yes, it could be even better if my life wasn't like it is.

Thank you for reading...writing helps me express in non-verbal INTJ tendencies. :-)

[Survivor_7777]

I think we are best matched with extroverts who are S's