[Blackened Marxist]

Marx seemed more INTJ. Look at this quote: "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, the point, however, is to change it."
An INTP would probably respond by saying, "the point of philosophy is to understand the world, not to change
it."
Marx screams Te in that quote; a Ti dominant intellectual would probably just want to sit around trying to make sense of things.

Bertrand Russell reminds me of George Carlin: almost INTP, but more xNTP. He did have a very developed Ti to support his Ne. So I'll mildly accept him as a hybrid sort of guy like Carlin and da Vinci.

And yes, Noam Chomsky is undoubtedly INTP. No question.

I hold that same view that Marx had, I'm still an INTP.
Marx still ventured really deep in philosophical realms, coming up with ideas that many people considered insane, but he persisted with them.

I think George Carlin is ENTP, charisma and all. Russel was pretty introvert as a person, wandering around his yard, by himself. Sitting in his library smoking his pipe.

Chomsky has a few tj tendencies, but overall undeniably INTP.

[Protagoras]

Marx seemed more INTJ. Look at this quote: "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, the point, however, is to change it."
An INTP would probably respond by saying, "the point of philosophy is to understand the world, not to change
it."
Marx screams Te in that quote; a Ti dominant intellectual would probably just want to sit around trying to make sense of things.

Marx only analysed classical 'capitalism' (the then current system), saw that a change was needed, sketched an alternative and deduced certain conditions for this alternative, but he never made a plan for the actual implementation of this change. When asked how the social order would be reorganized after capitalism had destroyed itself, Marx simply had no answer, he said that a communist society would automatically organize itself in a just constellation. Even the core assumption that capitalism would overthrow itself was based on his analytical findings, Marx never came up with a plan to change the world, he just assumed that the change was inevitable. He wanted others to shape this change in the right form and wanted us to think about the outcomes of the changes, but he has never shown an ambition to organize this change himself. Furthermore, it is known that he wasn't a proactive person and that he was more occupied with broadening his analytical understanding of the world than with implementing changes in real life. He might have been a materialist in thought but he was far from materialistic in his actual day-to-day life. The simple fact that he based his ideas on rather speculative axioms makes him very unlikely to be INTJ, I'd say he's actually one of the most apparent INTPs out of all philosophers. Besides, he was described by his mother as a useless dreamer who couldn't handle any money... I can't see how he had a developed Te...

[Ti Dominant]

I hold that same view that Marx had, I'm still an INTP.
Marx still ventured really deep in philosophical realms, coming up with ideas that many people considered insane, but he persisted with them.

I think George Carlin is ENTP, charisma and all. Russel was pretty introvert as a person, wandering around his yard, by himself. Sitting in his library smoking his pipe.

Chomsky has a few tj tendencies, but overall undeniably INTP.

Hmm... **rubs chin**.... very peculiar. I suppose Marx is up in the air then.
As for Carlin and Russell: possibly. Although, ENTP's can be both emotional and they can come off introverted. So I can't really say for sure. And yeah, Chomsky is INTP fo sho.

[Ti Dominant]

Marx only analysed classical 'capitalism' (the then current system), saw that a change was needed, sketched an alternative and deduced certain conditions for this alternative, but he never made a plan for the actual implementation of this change. When asked how the social order would be reorganized after capitalism had destroyed itself, Marx simply had no answer, he said that a communist society would automatically organize itself in a just constellation. Even the core assumption that capitalism would overthrow itself was based on his analytical findings, Marx never came up with a plan to change the world, he just assumed that the change was inevitable. He wanted others to shape this change in the right form and wanted us to think about the outcomes of the changes, but he has never shown an ambition to organize this change himself. Furthermore, it is known that he wasn't a proactive person and that he was more occupied with broadening his analytical understanding of the world than with implementing changes in real life. He might have been a materialist in thought but he was far from materialistic in his actual day-to-day life. The simple fact that he based his ideas on rather speculative axioms makes him very unlikely to be INTJ, I'd say he's actually one of the most apparent INTPs out of all philosophers. Besides, he was described by his mother as a useless dreamer who couldn't handle any money... I can't see how he had a developed Te...

Useless dreamer. And indeed, I do remember reading that Marx was lazy as hell and bad with money. He couldn't budget worth his life. I also read that Marx was very uncouth and rather dirty, not taking showers and just sitting around reading all day - a brilliant logical, analytical thinker. And yeah, he did seem less organized and without a real plan. So INTP does seem very likely. Thanks for the info!

BTW, do any of you INTP's relate to the entire "not bathing" part?

[Ti Dominant]

Also, can anyone make sens of Marx's quote about changing the world, if indeed he was INTP?
Do we wish to understand the world passively or to affect it with our minds?

This sounds like a good poll question. I will go ASAP!

[Protagoras]

Also, can anyone make sens of Marx's quote about changing the world, if indeed he was INTP?
Do we wish to understand the world passively or to affect it with our minds?

We shouldn't forget that Marx meant change as in a possible future change in the entire society, he didn't make his idea of 'changing the world' into a personal maxim... So the quote might scream Te when you take it out of context, but once you understand the intention Marx had with that quote, you'll understand that he used the word 'change' in a very broad, philosophical manner. He didn't mean we have to go and change the world every time we get the chance, but rather that we have to think of ways in which we can affect and use the big changes in our societies. He didn't call on philosphers to go and unleash revolutions, but he wanted them to think about the future.

And about whether we INTPs want to analyse or change the world through our thoughts: I want to do both and usually these two goals are intertwined and seemingly the same in my thinking. Sometimes I already changed reality in my head and are absolutely certain that my thoughts are already made reality... untill reality smacks me in the face by showing me that reality is still the same old inferior version of my perceived and self-constructed reality.

[Blackened Marxist]

Useless dreamer. And indeed, I do remember reading that Marx was lazy as hell and bad with money. He couldn't budget worth his life. I also read that Marx was very uncouth and rather dirty, not taking showers and just sitting around reading all day o! e to the entire "not bathing" part?

Lol, sounds like me. It really upsets my ENFJ mother.

[Ti Dominant]

hehe, yeah. We can be rather careless with the external world, including our own bodies.

[Meeps]

Juno is an INTP! (the one from the movie, not mythology)
I love her!
I love Juno/Hera too!! I think Zeus deserved everything she did to him.>:O

[lycanized]

I think Juno may be an ENTP, actually.