[nevermore]

...interior decorating is a foriegn concept

Hey! I'm an INTP male, and I am actually big on interior decoration.



Seriously, I don't get why were having this conversation here. Yeah, men tend to be a certain way and women a certain way, but wouldn't you expect that INTP females would break the mold? Wouldn't you expect them not to take well to this? Come on guys! Are your Fe's that underdeveloped?

By the way, I always felt more feminine than most guys growing up. And yet I'm INTP. A pretty masculine type, they say (except perhaps for our stereotypical dislike of sports). What happened there? Was I just confused? Perhaps. But even so, I think that's evidence enough that there are a lot of different ways your biological mindset can express itself.

[Nitou]

Seriously, I don't get why were having this conversation here. Yeah, men tend to be a certain way and women a certain way, but wouldn't you expect that INTP females would break the mold? Wouldn't you expect them not to take well to this? Come on guys! Are your Fe's that underdeveloped?

Because it's interesting? I happen to find sociobiology a fascinating subject, even with its limits. Why should the possibility of someone being offended preclude us from discussing or thinking about controversial subjects?

By the way, I always felt more feminine than most guys growing up. And yet I'm INTP. A pretty masculine type, they say (except perhaps for our stereotypical dislike of sports). What happened there? Was I just confused? Perhaps. But even so, I think that's evidence enough that there are a lot of different ways your biological mindset can express itself.

I dunno, I find NTP men (at least the ones I have known personally) to be relatively "feminine" among the thinking types. Okay, that's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but we do tend to be egalitarian and somewhat androgynous by nature, no? We're also relatively rare. Has anyone here denied the diversity of gender expression? People on this forum generalize freely about personality types, sometimes in a negative way, but when anyone generalizes about sex some will get their hackles up.

[nevermore]

^^
Oh, I find this stuff fascinating too. I was more referring to people expecting to say things like this and not draw ire, whether it be in the form of a denial of science or an overly rigid interpretation of it. I really like reading about this type of stuff in my spare time too and appreciate online discussion about it, even if the topic's sort of been done to death.

[capnbonsai]

I definitely consider myself a guy, I like guns, fast cars, action movies and shooting innocent animals (hunting). I like acting like a big kid, but at the same time, I could totally see myself being a stay-at-home dad and would be perfectly fine with my woman supporting me. I don't really care either way. As long as there is money to pay the bills and everyone is happy, all is well. I get bored of every job I've had after 6 months anyway so I don't feel like I'll ever be "successful" in the traditional sense of the word. Plus, it would give me time to dabble in hobby after hobby; even with my kids. I think I would like homeschooling my kids, I could learn all the history and stuff I've forgotten since I was in school. Of course, I'm pretty shy so it might not be good for the kids' social lives.

[error]

Remaining friends after the relationships failed is awkward. Unless the two of you are actually really good friends than I don't see the point. Sure it can work but if it's uncomfortable to hang out with someone because of your history then you shouldn't have to. Just my two cents on that, I don't even see how gender factors in there.

Okay, as for me and gender. All I can say is I guess it doesn't matter that much. I've questioned my own gender, but as I thought about it my decision became this, I don't care what my sex is therefor I must not have a gender? I'm male, but if someone was like, "Hey man, you're going to have to be physically female now. I don't know why, some science (radioactive stem cells? nanobots that reprogram people on a physical and genetic level? Doesn't matter.) or something got mixed into your morning coffee and you're going to turn female and you have no choice in the matter." I'd just be like, "Meh. Sounds like something that'd happen to me."

Of course there isn't any kind of scientific way that could happen I suppose, don't let me get sidetracked!

My point is it makes no difference to me whether I'm male or female, and therefor I don't care about gender.

[Richard]

I’m relatively genderless in my approach to most things. I think it’s a factor in my inability to attract the opposite sex in the flesh.

Overall it doesn’t bother me, I’m comfortable with being neutral.

[Nyang]

I never felt comfortable with any form of gender role classification, and things like that. It just seems so futile to me. Just because someone is a man or a woman, society expects them to act,to think in a certain way. It's intellectually, and personally degrading to me when someone makes assumptions about who I am, or what I think just because I'm a guy.

[nadjasix]

So, just one?

I noticed a couple of female INTPs mentioned they like alpha males, in this thread. And based on a few other comments I've seen here, maybe MBTI doesn't encompass this? Even if men like the idea of their SO being someone, it's usually not a deal breaker for them (95% of them).

This is pretty much where the gender roles come from. Men are pretty much valued for being someone, having wealth, status/titles, etc. when it doesn't really matter for women. So, men typically seek that kind of stuff out while women don't. A woman can be viewed as being highly valued without doing that.

Considering relationships/sex is for the purpose of reproduction, I guess that would make sense. Men don't really have many physical characteristics that relate to their reproductive potential, since they don't carry the child or breast feed it. So there is less emphasis placed on physical attributes and more on other aspects.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

Let's just go with: men have secondary sex characteristics just like women do.

[nadjasix]

Yes, there is quite a bit of literature to support my view (David Buss, Warren Farrell, Jared Diamond, many more among scientists, and a host of fiction writers Sam Keen, Robert Bly, etc..). However, what I hope to convey is that each of us; male, female, or otherwise; has a role in this world. The simple evolutionary rationale is that human sexual orientation meets the demands of a successful community. We need to stop listening to PC bullshit that tells us we are the same. I have much to learn from the great men of history! I hope that you females learn lessons from the great females as well! It is truly a shame that women are not included in most of the histories, but I digress.

Other minorities, this is your time to create your own heroes.. or whatever you want to call them! Disregard conjecture, choose a path of greatness. What I am saying is that traditional archetypes are not patriarchal bullshit... they often contain wisdom. I think history would laugh at the effeminate western male whose obsessions consist of clothing and related superficialities. Locke believed that humans are tabula rasa, and he is obviously on to something. Humans often obey teaching and we must be careful of what nonsense is disseminated..

Jared Diamond and David Buss have exactly nothing in common w/r/t their views on the evolutionary purpose of "gender roles"...

I like how you made a bunch of ridiculous bald assertions, and then added that disclaimer there on the end so when someone called you out on them, you could backpedal as necessary.

[nadjasix]

What an amusing thread.
I find it very odd that so many people can be, for instance, a man, and imagine, somehow, that being one counts for nothing.
There are two sexes because there must be.
If it were of no importance, there would only be one.
I am about as masculine as a man could be, but this was not always the case.
My wife is about as feminine as a woman could be, yet this was not always the case.
We accept our differing roles easily and without resentment.
We get along.
That is why roles always have been, and always will be, important.
We get along.

How deep.

Can I get that in gold on a Hallmark card?