[Zulban]

Jack of all trades and master of none? Interesting. I actually agree fully.

So for the sake of it, I find INTPs and INxPs in general often resent the ruthlessness that supports the INTJ drive for thorough knowledge.

That is what I meant, that INTPs try to master everything, but do not. Personally speaking, I am far more likely to master skill based (and thus more useless) abilities than knowledge based abilities. Let me clear something up; INTPs tend to be fairly skilled in everything, where INTJs are very skilled in a few things.

Perhaps the INxPs resentment is more of an F thing, because I have a very strong T and have honestly never felt that. Instead I don't understand why one would go so far into something, allow me to offer an example.

The INTP in programming might half finish a pogram, and once they're convinced that they 'could' write the program, they are fully satisfied. INTJs on the other hand need to see it work in all its complexity. Resultingly, the INTP has more unfinished projects on the go at all times (that likely are never finished) and the INTJ has far less projects, but they often finish.



My P % is pretty low however, therefore I am the ultimate master of many fields. :P

[NephilimAzrael]

Competence and skill are separate capacities. Although I appreciate that you are aware of the limitations of both types. The reference to acquiring skills over knowledge is a misnomer. In regard to acquiring a skill, one can reach a level of training which enters into an advanced stage, leave it and achieve another advanced level. Without a sufficient level of competence, the skill goes into a system of extinction and may or may not be recalled successfully. Application of a knowledge interface with the skill reinforces the skill in-itself and advances one's capacity for future recall and operation. Although I do not disagree with you as such, the INTP spirit is somehow easily set in maintaining a level of confidence that the subject is covered, afterwards. The INTJ spirit applies to knowing the final target and assimilating all material up to a whole mastery.

I'm saying something similar to what you are saying, but to a single fault. An INTP may argue themself out of a paper bag, but an INTJ just throws it off and starts something that they aspire to achieve. Its a perfectionist streak. And I can roughly guess that your brothers and your friends show similar traits in the definitive effort they apply to what they deem necessary, and not just appealing.

The resentment feature I can meet you half-way on. However, INTPs do present a level of resistance to the INTJ character. For one, they may envisage a Judger perspective to be too concise and not expansive enough. Yet as a result, the possibilities and the potentialities encouraged by most NTs are being ignored. There may be a lack of encouragement on both sides, but an INTP would be quick on the draw to dismiss the J's perseverance.

That aside, I am merely blabbing (which I enjoy) and got to make a point and ran to a tangent which probably only I comprehend. Sure, think of it as a quandary. And go with it.

[Ogion]

Oh hey, don't misunderstand it. We INTPs do value perseverance, we often wish we could just finish one of our never finished projects up appropriately.
For me it is a matter of 'cognitive capacity'. If i were to pour every bit of it in one, or a few, projects, i would got pretty deep in it. But i prefer, and think i actually only am able to pour it just to a certain depth, but in so many projects. It's like comparing a lake with a little surface area but high depth toa lake with alarge surface area but little depth. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
But really it isn't all that of a decision, which strategy to follow. For me at least. I love to learn about everything, most things are interesting. But as soon as one field gets so much attention that i barly can learn in other fields as well, i resent it. I don't want to give up my broad range of learning fields just to get to a deeper level in one.

Ogion

[NephilimAzrael]

This discussion reminds me of many talks I've had over tea and biscuits with my INTP comrade. How one can never truly know anything, which I adore in the P function. Yet there is always one point of reference he refers back to, and the same place he sometimes tries to play too hard with the big boy, yup, I;m self-referencing again, but tis true.

I don't know what it is, but the competent mastery of one topic allows for an easy transition to mastering the next one, and this when pressed, exponentiates the assimilation of new challenges.

If I was to name but one point I dislike most of all, is that this INTJ has the utmost difficulty expressing his knowledge. If it were a free-reign of instant release. One could be assured that the minds of those surrounding me would melt with the vast swathes of data. Tick, tick, SPLAT!!

[Nightriser]

[...]one thing that is going to take off very fast is some form of non-invasive BCI that will surpass keyboard+mouse communication with computers and other devices. I've already seen a few devices that work like this, and with some fine tuning and improvements to the technology, the benefits will be pretty insane.

A biometrics-controlled car has already been prototyped, using BCI technology, or "mind control" equipment. It is designed to combat road rage, so it reads biometric signals commonly associated with anger or frustration. When it detects the signals exceeding some "safe" level, the car theoretically turns over to autopilot and drives onto a shoulder of the road until the signals go back down, indicating a "calm" temperament. The prototype was only designed to stop when the signals went over the limit, but the concept they're working towards was an autopilot that steers off the road. I've seen some pretty amazing things when it comes to BCI controls. We have the concept down, I think, we simply need to refine and adjust it.

Of course, currently, all of these type of devices need to be wired into large computers, but imagine once they become wireless!

Technology Review: Charging Batteries without Wires
Right now, we're only at the battery-charging level, but it shouldn't be very long before we reach the stage you're talking about.

Then again, it's not only humans being integrated with computers and machines, it works the other way around, too. Carbon is very popular in materials and electronics, and has some fascination in computing.

Oh hey, don't misunderstand it. We INTPs do value perseverance, we often wish we could just finish one of our never finished projects up appropriately.
But as soon as one field gets so much attention that i barly can learn in other fields as well, i resent it. I don't want to give up my broad range of learning fields just to get to a deeper level in one.

I often wish to finish my projects, but it's like I have a love affair with new fields that catch my eye. I cannot resist the new one, and I completely forget about the previous one, at least while the novelty lasts.
At least while the new project or other object of affection is novel, nothing can distract us from that, not even hunger, headache, or fatigue (at least in my case).

[Ogion]

Yes nightrise, but alas, then a new thing will come quickly, and the novelty passes on...;)

Ogion

[Nightriser]

Yes nightrise, but alas, then a new thing will come quickly, and the novelty passes on...;)

Ogion

Yes, yes. I'm shameful.
At least I have passion.

[Zulban]

The reference to acquiring skills over knowledge is a misnomer.

but an INTP would be quick on the draw to dismiss the J's perseverance.

By knowledge based skill I didn't mean you learnt it from knowledge you already had, but rather something like WoW or god knows what (a game involving hundreds of systems and spells) will interest an INTJ a lot more than INTP. They will be more prone to wanting to learn all of this 'data', whereas an INTP would probably be more interested by the differet variety of kinds of spells.

Also, you can learn skills much faster given fore knowledge, and the mere fact that I'm debating it indicates it's not a misnomer :P. Though there is a distinct possibility that we mean different things so how about you tell me what you mean by learning a skill over knowledge first.

I'm not so sure about dismissing a J's perseverance. I think J and P NTs work good together, but alone they have serious limitations. Essentially the NTP needs to clear up a general idea on something but not actually carry out its creation, and the NTJ needs to worry about the specific details on a project.

The source for this line of thought is that I find NTP to have many projects on the go, that are often far more ambitious than the NTJs, however they do not finish these, ever. NTJ will start a poject they know they can and will finish because they get no satisfaction otherwise. They just need to be pushed to start something bigger.

[NephilimAzrael]

Were you honestly relating this to computer-games? Oh, well if such is the case. I'm leaving.

[Zulban]

It's a good example. I would say learning C++ but that's assuming everyone here knows a bit about prgramming. And I would say assembling radiators but that's assuming everyone here knows a bit about that. What's your beef? :P