[hela]

I tend to see more as related to biological gender influence and the various forms of socialization that women and men are hit with. This will naturally cause some differentiation. As a counter example involving gender hormone swaps, transguys I meet generally seem to have a strong assertive masculine component, but they still retain a sensitivity to relationships/emotions that is more typical of females in the culture, so it tempers them.



Same thing, I think that INTP males have a typical male bent where they just focus on the topics of interest and socially they are also permitted to let relationships slide. Western culture is not so accommodating with females; even if we don't care to invest as much relationally, typically the culture puts pressure on us to learn that, and we're forced to socialize with other females and looked at oddly if we hang with groups of males, etc. There is also the actual impact of testosterone and estrogen on the developing person, and they both have different effects on brain dev and body dev, etc. They're designed to make changes in how the organism behaves, by their very nature, and of course estrogen is aimed at nesting functions, potential child-rearing, and other relational activities.

Bottom line, I think male INTPs can end up being more "extreme" in the thinking pursuits and are also freed by society to gravitate in that direction; it's allowable to be the absent-minded prof type, so nothing stops them from drifting that way.

Exactly this. In my line of work, I have to be an extroverted feeler in order to be successful--so I fake it. It's all part of the job description for women.

[nadjasix]

Exactly this. In my line of work, I have to be an extroverted feeler in order to be successful--so I fake it. It's all part of the job description for women.

Therefore, nature.

QED.

[Grish]

Citations, please, on all of it.

I'm so sick of laypeople who think they're scientists.

The "evidence" regarding multitasking is that no one does it any better than anyone else, that the attentional apparatus in humans attends to one thing at a time in everyone, and that in fact people who attempt to scatter their attention through "multi-tasking" take longer and do a poorer job with the tasks they're performing than people who do one thing at a time.

Bringing up anecdotes about "transmen" is a wash, since by the time a person's old enough to have sex reassignment surgery, there are many many factors aside from hormones that have shaped their personality and relational style.

You know, if you're going to reprimand a bunch of people for not giving any citations, it might be a good idea to provide some citations for your own claims.

[Jennywocky]

Therefore, nature.

QED.

Well, to be clear, my post detailed that there is some fuzzy influence from hormonal development (this is established not just with people but within the animal kingdom -- human beings simply have the option of consciously overriding their instinctual programming, compared to most other animals, so I don't think the impact of bio is as obvious or explicable with us).

But yeah, a lot of social influence, permissions, and prohibitions are involved as well.

[Jennywocky]

Citations, please, on all of it.

If I was writing a term paper, I'd waste a few hours doing that.
Sorry, that's not on my to-do list.

My goal is to show you other avenues that you can independently choose to explore, NOT to convince you that I am right. If you don't care to invest, that's your problem. I have no vested interest in winning you to my side.

Bringing up anecdotes about "transmen" is a wash, since by the time a person's old enough to have sex reassignment surgery, there are many many factors aside from hormones that have shaped their personality and relational style.

That's an old question in the research that hasn't gone unexplored.

Your counter-arguments here seem to be about as "layperson" as anything you're choosing to bitch about.

[nadjasix]

If I was writing a term paper, I'd waste a few hours doing that.
Sorry, that's not on my to-do list.

My goal is to show you other avenues that you can independently choose to explore, NOT to convince you that I am right. If you don't care to invest, that's your problem. I have no vested interest in winning you to my side.



That's an old question in the research that hasn't gone unexplored.

Your counter-arguments here seem to be about as "layperson" as anything you're choosing to bitch about.

They can get more "term-papery" if you like.

@Grish

Which citations would you like? The latest in research into the non-existence of multi-tasking is by Clifford Nass at Stanford.

I can think of several volumes on gender reassignment. If you're unfamiliar with the history of the operation and John Money's role, you could start there. Wikipedia. Ask and you shall receive more recommendations.

[Dimensional Transition]

Don't think this is limited to females. Most of my friends type me as an ENFP, while I'm pretty sure I'm an INTP. Albeit one that acknowledges the importance of sociability and empathy. I just make a lot of use of Ne around people, and when I'm at home I recharge by using Ti a lot. I tend to sort of surprise people with the depth of my theories and thoughts. They usually forget I'm quite analytical and 'thinky' until I suddenly go on a whole monologue about why I think school should not be mandatory and such.

An explanation for your anecdotal evidence that INTP females are less introverted than the males, is that society puts greater pressure on females to be social, emotionally-expressive and caring etc. It's generally considered 'normal' for young boys to be a little more egocentric and rational than girls. Which might lead to most INTP females having developed their Fe and Ne more than most INTP males.

[misstheground]

I'm a female INTP, but I routinely type as ENFP. My E/I and T/F are very close to equal.
When I was younger I typed INFP a lot, but I've come socially out of my shell, and now my F seems to be coupled with my E, when I'm in an extroverted mood I'm more feelerish.
I can't figure out if it's societal, though.

[Jennywocky]

I can think of several volumes on gender reassignment. If you're unfamiliar with the history of the operation and John Money's role, you could start there. Wikipedia. Ask and you shall receive more recommendations.

You should toss in his long-standing feud with Milton Diamond; you'll get a nice interplay there between competing ideas of nature vs nurture.

[Perhaps]

Wow, this thread clearly touched some nerves.

All the INTP women I've ever known have been markedly better-adjusted (read: more balanced) than the guys, simply because they have to be. Socially, they're not allowed to revel in "INTPish" traits because basically all of them are generally frowned upon by broader society, blah blah blah stuff that's already been covered, whereas in a guy, said traits are seen as more "eccentric." There's also an endearing quality assigned to it with regards to the men, especially the awkward turtle aspect. Women are simply not afforded this luxury.