[jd_]

Well, let me be more precise. I find whinging self indulgent emotional mental wanks in the form of a monologue as boring as you do. I meant that for example, with The INTJ I really like to let my Ne fly away in a way that to me is abstract but also emotionally relevant, example, I have enormous fun finding mental funny images of us, of how his brain works, or never ending what ifs (what would you do if, how would you react if, what will be when we are in homes for the elderly etc lol). What I would call irrelevant conversation is things like "Im having a pie for lunch". Yeah good for you, mate. Hm. Next?

Ive just made a sensor dom friend sit through my monologue of "what's wrong with the world" and it's funny to see how she listens to me, but she is clearly not motivated to discuss things that don't affect her, I don't mean it in a selfish or self absorbed way, it's just that sensors seem to find it really pointless...



(also, out of interest, if you have moved away from infpness, have you found out your type?)

I agree on those points.

INFJ would be the most likely candidate. I was testing INFP (mostly due to the P slot being off I think)

I'm a 5w4 enneagram and sit between more as an INXJ.

The only thing I'm certain of is the Nidominance and Se Inferior... the others will probably forever remain mixed.

I'm pretty "spacey" so high S types...it is VERY hard to relate to... as well as "fact" driven people which take things as they are, and like authority/rules/etc...

[jesseblade]

They could be boring if they don't find you interesting enough to speak around, or if nothing in a forum sparks their interest.

I've found once you find synergy with similar interests, they aren't all that boring - they have great ideas and ways of looking at just about anything.

I have yet to meet an INTJ in real life.

[Elyasis]

They could be boring if they don't find you interesting enough to speak around, or if nothing in a forum sparks their interest.

I've found once you find synergy with similar interests, they aren't all that boring - they have great ideas and ways of looking at just about anything.

I have yet to meet an INTJ in real life.

I've met an ISTJ who ponced about calling himself an INTJ. Does that count?

[cococabane]

I used to wonder why such a great emphasis was placed upon the "N"/ "S" divide, now I get it so completely. To me its almost like speaking another language communicating with an S type.

As long as there is and "N" in there somewhere, I can find silly or deep conversation to be had which does not bore me (silly and deep is great!) N's give me room to breathe and dream and INTJS are no different.

My dad is INTJ and whilst his rules were fairly tough growing up, he also knew how to find and point out "magic" in the world, in the form of amazing science or wonderous sights to be visited in the world. The INTJ's focus and ability to read through all the "boring" papers, news and science etc in order to pick out the interesting pieces is something Im grateful for.

Their ranting could appear boring I suppose but within it there's a call for quality and a rejection of superficiality which Im all for.

[Near]

I used to wonder why such a great emphasis was placed upon the "N"/ "S" divide, now I get it so completely. To me its almost like speaking another language communicating with an S type.

As long as there is and "N" in there somewhere, I can find silly or deep conversation to be had which does not bore me (silly and deep is great!) N's give me room to breathe and dream and INTJS are no different.

My dad is INTJ and whilst his rules were fairly tough growing up, he also knew how to find and point out "magic" in the world, in the form of amazing science or wonderous sights to be visited in the world. The INTJ's focus and ability to read through all the "boring" papers, news and science etc in order to pick out the interesting pieces is something Im grateful for.

Their ranting could appear boring I suppose but within it there's a call for quality and a rejection of superficiality which Im all for.

I like where you're going with this.
But you make me feel like an S, because I don't think that I give people the room to
"breath and dream".
ie: if it doesn't seem to be applicable, i'll start to get mean and try to demolish theories.
I like to do that though, maybe it's hypocrisy on a subconscious level.
Is that what you're talking about, can this hurt my relationships with N types?......well?

This is good, you just made me re-think some of my patterns.

[cococabane]

I like where you're going with this.
But you make me feel like an S, because I don't think that I give people the room to
"breath and dream".
ie: if it doesn't seem to be applicable, i'll start to get mean and try to demolish theories.
I like to do that though, maybe it's hypocrisy on a subconscious level.
Is that what you're talking about, can this hurt my relationships with N types?......well?

This is good, you just made me re-think some of my patterns.

If you enter the debate of "what if" you give me room to breathe and dream, what I find with S types is that either they
a) don't enter the debate to begin with (but quietly judge you, unsure of what to make of you)
or
b) they just don't quite get where you were heading. They can't demolish my theory because they don't get the theory to begin with, its not concrete and doesn't exist yet so it's hard for them to comprehend.

Now if you "get" my theory and still challenge me on it, I can work with that, you've entered the debate. I've quite a few INTJs in my life and not one has ever let me get away with a sentence with a glaring hole in it. I spend a lot of time establishing validity/acceptance of propositions before the debate gets under way.

My need for space to dream and breathe is that I need to be able to talk about something other than what already is. I need to be able to hypothesise about ways of turning this drudgery into something beautiful, to discuss those things which for me make us greater than the sum of the parts. But I don't do this by talking about fairy dust or magical wands which turn us all into happy snuggle monkeys who live happily ever after. Us ENFPs are pretty logical when we need to be, we are the "thinking feelers" after all, and if you soundly shoot down holes in my plans for micro credit funding for cottage industries in Bangladesh, then you'll have saved me a lot of time and effort.

Now if as you say you genuinely do get mean then yeah, I suppose this is going to impact upon your relationships. But do you get mean or do you get exasperated? Your tone of reply to my thread was conciliatory and diplomatic, which makes me think you don't start out just to demolish.

I think a classic description of NFs is that they seek win-win approaches whereas SJs seek win-lose, Im not sure what INTJs are supposed to be like, maybe you're win-lose also?

Any other INTJS care to shed light on the Win-lose, win-win debate?

[searcheagle]

I've met an ISTJ who ponced about calling himself an INTJ. Does that count?

Lol, I have a friend who did the same things. Took the test and came out ISTJ 3 times. The 4th time, he came out as an INTJ. Guess what he calls himself?

[ToxicSilver]

The only INTJ I know is my older brother, and I do not normally find him boring - but once he's started talking about something he's interested in he'll just talk for as long as he can... once I walked out of the room and he didn't notice until about 5 minutes later hahah.

[searcheagle]

Now if as you say you genuinely do get mean then yeah, I suppose this is going to impact upon your relationships. But do you get mean or do you get exasperated? Your tone of reply to my thread was conciliatory and diplomatic, which makes me think you don't start out just to demolish.

I think a classic description of NFs is that they seek win-win approaches whereas SJs seek win-lose, Im not sure what INTJs are supposed to be like, maybe you're win-lose also?

Any other INTJS care to shed light on the Win-lose, win-win debate?

I think it depends on what we are engaged in. If I'm debating, I go for Win-Lose. (But then again, when I'm/we're done debating, we can go back to being friends. If you take things personally, I don't debate with you.)

If I'm trying to get something accomplished, I'll try to convince you that what I am pushing is Win-Win. (And if you don't agree with my Win-Win idea, I'll still try to win.)

[Near]

If you enter the debate of "what if" you give me room to breathe and dream, what I find with S types is that either they
a) don't enter the debate to begin with (but quietly judge you, unsure of what to make of you)
or
b) they just don't quite get where you were heading. They can't demolish my theory because they don't get the theory to begin with, its not concrete and doesn't exist yet so it's hard for them to comprehend.

Now if you "get" my theory and still challenge me on it, I can work with that, you've entered the debate. I've quite a few INTJs in my life and not one has ever let me get away with a sentence with a glaring hole in it. I spend a lot of time establishing validity/acceptance of propositions before the debate gets under way.

My need for space to dream and breathe is that I need to be able to talk about something other than what already is. I need to be able to hypothesise about ways of turning this drudgery into something beautiful, to discuss those things which for me make us greater than the sum of the parts. But I don't do this by talking about fairy dust or magical wands which turn us all into happy snuggle monkeys who live happily ever after. Us ENFPs are pretty logical when we need to be, we are the "thinking feelers" after all, and if you soundly shoot down holes in my plans for micro credit funding for cottage industries in Bangladesh, then you'll have saved me a lot of time and effort.

Now if as you say you genuinely do get mean then yeah, I suppose this is going to impact upon your relationships. But do you get mean or do you get exasperated? Your tone of reply to my thread was conciliatory and diplomatic, which makes me think you don't start out just to demolish.

I think a classic description of NFs is that they seek win-win approaches whereas SJs seek win-lose, Im not sure what INTJs are supposed to be like, maybe you're win-lose also?

Any other INTJS care to shed light on the Win-lose, win-win debate?

Yeah, it's not like I derive satisfaction from winning/shooting down theories.
I used to be like this, but what's so good about being right all the time.

The reason I originally replied is that recently I adopted a "look for what IS right" strategy, rather than "be right".
I expect this strategy to accelerate the rate in which I grow my knowledge base.

Now, if I still have this old demeanor in me, then I didn't accomplish anything.
And there is the fact that the win-lose approach has a significant down to it....
"You can still lose", let's face it, no one's logic is complete.

Do I get REALLY mean? I'm articulate (in my language), I can deliver one-liners that upset people (negative trait, i know).

To be even more open, I do use win-win approaches with my close friends.
The execuse i give myself is: "They're so few, I don't want to lose them"
This sounds pathetic i know, but i only bring close to me the ones i value most, because i value in them something that doesn't exist in other people.
things like sound judgement, honesty, ect......
Maybe the execuse should be: "They're so GOOD, I don't want to lose them".

seriously though, you had me at Snuggle Monkeys.