[INTJ] Anger


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This is a discussion on Anger within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; ...

  1. #1
    INFP - The Idealists


    So, INTJs and emotions again...and this time anger in particular.

    Is anger an emotion you feel more strongly that others? Do you ever let it cloud your judgement or does it work like other emotions, sort of in the background of logic? (I am assuming that's how emotions tend to work for INTJs, correct me if I am wrong)

    Do you think that anger is a legitimate emotion to indulge in, because..I don't know, you can't cope with the frustration of other people's behaviour or do you try to be neutral or fair in these cases too?

    How do you deal with anger? is is a private emotion? Do you think it´s ok to express your anger when you feel it, even if that means really hurting people around you?

    I am wondering what the INTJs thoughts about anger in general are, not necessarily an answer to every question. I am interested to see if there are general INTJ patterns or if the way we deal with negative emotions depends on the person and the upbringing rather than our type.

    What makes you angry? People's stupidity I think is the answer!. Does the fact that you can´t control peoples emotions and behaviour make you particularly angry?

    I wonder if it's true that INFPs get upset and INTJs get angry. When something bothers me, even though I do have a temper, I am more likely to be sad about it rather than angry, feel like a victim, and let it stew inside. The negative thoughts come out sooner or later though, and it's not a particularly healthy approach either.

    As an INTJ, how would you like people to react to your angry outbursts? duck? listen to what you are saying and change even though you know the way you say things pushes them away? (I am not talking about infp oversensitiveness, I am talking about insults and really unpleasant words), do you expect them to stand up to you? forget the next day and carry on?

    I know a very angry tantrum prone INTJ (lol dont be mad if you read this! hahah!) and I just need a bit of insight before I do INFP typical thing of not saying anything until they just one day they run a mile..

    How would you explain to an INTJ that there are boundaries and calling someone an asshole is NEVER justified..in fact the second that word is used, I do not CARE anymore what the context was..you've just lost the argument as far as I am concerned and any interest I had in finding out what was that made you angry in the first place is gone and replaced by hurt? Hurt INFPs aren't nice INFPs...

  2. #2

    I like anger. I wouldn't say I was an angry person but when I get angry it's always going to be for a reason. When anger builds up it actually forces me to get off my arse and do something to change the situation. I am not prone to tantrums at all.

    Try looking at the enneagram of your INTJ friend. It might be more helpful than MBTI.

  3. #3
    INFP - The Idealists

    Thanks for the answer the morrigan :)

    I don't know his enneagram, but I am not sure I can ask him to take another test, he already thinks I put too much faith in mbti as it is..

  4. #4
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I definitely feel anger pretty strongly. On the plus side it makes a great driving force, on the downside while I can normally control it once it crosses a certain threshold, I just go on the warpath. At that point the best thing you can do is concede - any attempt to resist will be met with continued conflict until you tire out (generally we have the kind of drive that does not give out easily).
    Explanation of anything to an INTJ should be done calmly and rationally, with logic and minimal use of emotion. The more emotion you add to it the less likely we are to accept it.

    Also, I'm pretty sure we all take MBTI a little too seriously - it's good for making (surprisingly accurate) correlations over large groups of people, but it's not so useful when applied to individuals beyond the general indications of perceptions, values, etc. I reckon it's cause we get so wowed by it's initial accuracy and how similar others of the same type are, we tend to forget it has limitations...
    Keirvega and White_Rat thanked this post.

  5. #5
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I get more destructive the angrier I get. Less likely to listen, and more likely to start being violent. It's apparently not a nice thing to see. It's not a good Idea to talk to me when I'm that angry- especially with sympathy or any emotional appeal. Just leave me to destroy whatever it is I'm destroying and come back with a well thought out arguement in 2-3 buisness days.
    Explanation of anything to an INTJ should be done calmly and rationally, with logic and minimal use of emotion. The more emotion you add to it the less likely we are to accept it.
    ^^When you argue your case, do it like that. If I'm angry at you , I don't care how you feel.
    Keirvega and Paradox of Vigor thanked this post.

  6. #6

    Anger is something I express more(?) than most other emotions, I can get myself worked up into a massive blind rage at times generally at something so insanely stupid as well, might be down to the eanergramm though 5W4....

  7. #7
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Anger is great when it is containable. It allows us to get in touch with what we believe and act in our own best interest. But any time an INTJ feels angry enough to need to express it on the spot, they have failed to act intelligently prior to the event. According to research, all anger is a result of our prediction that another person will consider our welfare or wellbeing in their actions.

    So if we are in a situation where we are getting angry, it means we at some point made a decision to trust another person with our welfare. If they did not care for our wellbeing, then we clearly made a faulty prediction, and the only intelligent thing to do is figure out why we trusted that person in the first place.

    Any INTJ that, after 20 or 30 years is still getting angry when others act incompetently or irrationally, is engaging in unintelligent, inefficent and irrational behavior themselves. If they had applied their experience of how incompetent and irrational most people are they would be making other choices that don't include placing themselves in a situation where others' incompetence or irrationality could affect them negatively. But this is the Achilles heel of the INTJ, the only thing that can make them irrational is the irrationality of others. Sense of humor is necessary.

    If someone is calling someone else an asshole, it means they are having derogatory, condescending feelings towards them. If your values include the concept that no person should be thought of as superior or inferior to any other, this kind of behavior will be offensive and unacceptable. Sometimes all it takes is pointing out to the person that when they call someone an object, it is dehumanizing them. The studies on domestic violence found that in order for a person to get physically violent with a loved one, they have to first degrade and that name-calling facilitates this in batterers. It may be harsh to use such an extreme example, but I don't see why we should have to accept any form of degredation in our personal lives. On the other hand, I engage in this with politicians on the T.V., so I suppose I am guilty as well.
    Sweetish, catniss, luemb and 2 others thanked this post.

  8. #8

    Anger is definitely my most dominant emotion and sometimes it clouds my judgment, but I have become very aware of it and make sure that, when I'm angry, I don't take any action until I am no longer angry.

    Luckily enough my logic is much stronger than my anger and it forces me down. I allow my rage to seethe inside until it eventually burns out, and only then do i allow myself to take action against that which made me angry.

    It's become a necessary thing to my every day life considering I have to handle/converse with a great number of people on a daily basis. A few years ago I ended up raging and permanently banning a member from the forum I was modding at the time. Only when I cooled down did I realize that I'd had a horrible misunderstanding and banned someone for something that they didn't do. Much embarrassment and many apologies were had that day.
    Queen Qualia thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Flora View Post
    Does the fact that you can´t control peoples emotions and behaviour make you particularly angry?
    No, just the fact that people expect me to control them. Your emotions are your own business, stop making me responsible for them. Argh people. Humans! Honestly! I don't like being held responsible for someone else's actions rather than my own.

    I was only really prone to tantrums when I was a little kid and continually boxed into corners. Then leaving me the hell alone would be the best thing - following me when I tried to be alone and calm down and bringing shit up over and over is the surest way to get me to hate you.

    Anger in general I think is fully legitimate to express, so are all emotions - what it isn't is a justification for trying to hurt people. There's a difference between letting off steam, defending a boundary, and directing rage at a person in order to hurt them. The first two I am fine with. When it becomes about the other person and intended as an attack, that is crap. It's not always easy to tell the difference so I try to assume it is one of the first two until reality slaps me in the face and points out it really is an attack. The last thing an angry person needs is an unjust accusation. Those make me more angry even than wilful ignorance.

    I might use more dramatic terms when I am angry - INFPs do this too in their threads, as far as I can tell - and someone quibbling on the precise semantical value is not going to help. I don't mean it in an absolutist fashion or use it for the purpose of hurting or degrading someone and, frankly, most of the time when I vent I am toning it down because I hate being dramatic. Given the amount I am suppressing even when I am angry, being nagged about the word or two that slips out, with no credit whatsoever for how much control I am still maintaining, can be frustrating. What is even worse is someone who tells me off for, say, using that term, asshole, if it is either something they say themselves, or they are equally damaging in a similar way. I loathe hypocrites.

    Then again, I more often say those things when venting about other people in a situation where it shouldn't damage the original person, than to someone's face. And try more to talk about the behaviour than about essentialist personal qualities.

    These scenarios, is it you she is mad at, or someone else?

    In response...I guess what I want most when I am angry is a reason not to be. If it can be explained that something wasn't intentional, that the action was less negative than it looks, I am great. If I am angry at you and you explain your intentions were to accomplish xyz and it makes sense and you look so much less manipulative/whatever now I understand, things are awesome. Perspective. If I am furious at something and my perception of it is totally accurate so I can't convince myself I needn't be angry, I just need to wait for it to pass and then make plans for avoiding the situation/person later. But I hate it when it's justified. That, and solitude really helps.
    Jomama, calliope, White_Rat and 1 others thanked this post.

  10. #10
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Anger used to be a huge issue for me. To say I wasn't in control would be a pretty significant understatement. I was, of course, ignorant to this since no one who I respected intellectually had cared to point out an issue with my behavior. When my parents brought up anger management classes, I scoffed at the idea, but I got the point and have since taken steps to control my anger.

    Now my anger rarely flares up to the point that I'm not in control. I can recall once in the last year. Put simply, what makes me angry is stupidity, but you already knew that about INTJs in general. More specifically, I get angry when someone is more stupid than I expect them to be and it is affecting me in some way. If I'm in an argument with someone who I already know is stupid, I get annoyed but not angry. If I'm arguing with someone whom I had put some measure of intellectual trust in and they turn out to be stupid, thats when I get angry with them. Usually it's a simple matter to control.

    Really I think you're being too sensitive about the insults. You have a personal issue with it for some reason. He doesn't. That isn't likely to change and dwelling on it can only cause trouble. Assuming this relationship isn't vital for anything involving your work, education, or home, an incompatible friendship should be allowed to die so that it stops causing unnecessary harm. If for some reason you have a strong desire to have a superficial friendship, an INTJ is probably not the way to go.

    I do agree with the above statement about his enneagram probably being more helpful. It focuses on the why rather than the what.

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