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This is a discussion on Ask an INTJ a question. within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Vitamin If the negative whiny person were a really good long time friend who is determined to ...

  1. #21971
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post
    If the negative whiny person were a really good long time friend who is determined to be set in his/her ways (not looking for sensible solutions or unwilling to take logical options into account), would you ever be drained enough to want to end the friendship? Or would you still continue being there just for the sake of being a friend?
    Yes, I would be looking to distance myself. If I can't respect someone, I can't be their friend. My (unhealthy) INFP friend is putting me in this position at the moment. We seemed like similar people a few years ago and now, well I wouldn't start a friendship with her today which says it all. Growing apart is normal with friends I guess. I don't like being around negative people.

    I'm also sensitive to people trying to put me in a caregiver role (which is what I see whiny, won't grow up, cling ons doing). Unless you're an injured frightened animal or small lost child, I really don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cake View Post
    ...do you guys hate multiple things going on a the same time, like music while a movies being played, or people talking while loud musics being played in the background
    Yes. I really hate multiple aural demands on me simultaneously. It's fine if it's background (not loud background noise/music) but once it gets to the point of demanding my attention, I have a very strong (internal) reaction. Trying to watch a movie, having a friend talk during it while someone else is being a texting maniac (constant phone sounds) and I am close to losing my cool, lol.

    I generally hate my focus being shifted by other people making demands on my attention (for no good reason) when I'm concentrating. I separate myself from others bc I don't trust them to control themselves/stay quiet. Being around another introvert who 'gets it' and we luxuriate together in comfortable silence is awesome :)

    I think I'm more sensitive to sound than most. Just the tv or music at home on very loud is painful to me. I'm always scrambling to get the volume down in those overly loud action scenes in movies. I like quiet.
    TrippedOnReality, lilysocks, cake and 4 others thanked this post.

  2. #21972

    Quote Originally Posted by cake View Post
    Well, i guess i havn't thought about it directly like that, but indirectly its not so much that i don't talk when around introverts. But instead i give them more space more often, while my esfp friend is around he basically lives at my house and is constantly around and talking and i can actually relate very much with you guys about find it draining. With that being said i think where i may differ from you guys is instead of just wanting silence while being around others, i tend to just disappear one way or another, while i have my introverted time, like even when my esfp friend(who i adore most of the time) i'd sometimes go out on hour long jogs just to let me have my thoughts to myself. I suppose being willing to be around others and still in silence(from everyone around) might be healthier way of doing this, and for sure something i want to work on a bit.
    When I was friends with the ESTP, similar. Dude was at my house 4-5 days a week. That wasn't so bad - but they are busy bodies, always want to be doing SOMETHING - going outside, looking for things to do i.e. fixing something, talking, on the phone half the time he was doing these things. The days he didn't come over, I would sleep so hard - not by choice. I would just randomly pass out if it was quiet.

    They generally do not get it. They are so on the other end of the spectrum, he actually would take it personally if I didn't want him over. My ENFP friend is like me and the ESTP just thought we were jerks sometimes because we wouldn't pick up the phone or text back or hang out. The ESxx combo seems to be that way. My ESFJ sister also used to get offended and not understand why I didn't want her to be over all the time until we discovered MBTI.

    Quote Originally Posted by cake View Post
    kind of similar thought, do you guys hate multiple things going on a the same time, like music while a movies being played, or people talking while loud musics being played in the background, i thought of this just now cause i was with my friend who loves talking with people, but gets headaches talking to people while musics being played.
    If I'm thinking, I can't have any sound. When I drive, I don't listen to music. If I'm concentrating on something, I need absolute silence. The sound of chewing bothers me, people speaking to me in the morning - they might as well be using a megaphone. It's can be so intrusive, especially if I'm focusing - I describe it as someone barging into your house without knocking.

    I do think my sense of hearing is particularly sensitive, though. I can hear the centrifuge in the lab ding (which is like an egg timer ding) from the front office which is about 70 feet away, behind doors, and despite the front office (three office staff - always on the phone or chatting) and back office (5 noisy veterinarians) being between. It's not uncommon to hear something and no one else does.

  3. #21973

    Quote Originally Posted by purpleviolet View Post
    i was talking with an estj. he said he thought usa presidents were weak in that they didn't turn it into a totalitarian government. someone suggested taking over north korea if he "felt" that way and rule over there, and he said he always felt usa should just bomb N. korea.

    what, honestly, would have been your reply to that?
    I would ask what happens after that decision? After you take it over, what happens then? What would they do with the mess that is leftover from their decision?

    When it comes to North Korea, the Chinese already figured this out. Destabilizing North Korea means someone has to deal with the millions of people people that would have to be taken care of. Being a dictator is over rated. Way more responsibility than the original decision leads one to believe.
    stathamspeacoat thanked this post.

  4. #21974

    Quote Originally Posted by kinkaid View Post
    I would ask what happens after that decision? After you take it over, what happens then? What would they do with the mess that is leftover from their decision?

    When it comes to North Korea, the Chinese already figured this out. Destabilizing North Korea means someone has to deal with the millions of people people that would have to be taken care of. Being a dictator is over rated. Way more responsibility than the original decision leads one to believe.
    Exactly. N Korea is severely impoverished and its citizens are terribly neglected. I watched a documentary about an ophthalmic surgeon who went over to treat people and saw cases of blindness caused by vitamin deficiency as a result of malnutrition. A bombing would devastate a population that does not have not access to the medical resources necessary for that scale of disaster. Furthermore, North Korea has a policy of refusing/not distributing aid (which is part of how the malnutrition issue came about, along with the aftermath of the famine) due to their closed borders. The financial/medical/environmental/etc demands in the aftermath and needs of refugees emerging from that environment (both pre- and post- bombing elements considered) would be an enormous undertaking.

    My expectation is not for people to have studied every topic ever in depth. What bothers me is when people make a statement like "bomb them and take over" without considering the magnitude of what that would mean. Cause and effect is a fairly simple concept.

    If bomb them and take over were an effective strategy, it would've already been done but this isn't Civ.
    kinkaid thanked this post.

  5. #21975
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dare View Post


    Yes. I really hate multiple aural demands on me simultaneously. It's fine if it's background (not loud background noise/music) but once it gets to the point of demanding my attention, I have a very strong (internal) reaction. Trying to watch a movie, having a friend talk during it while someone else is being a texting maniac (constant phone sounds) and I am close to losing my cool, lol.
    well im very gude about not putting multiple demands on people at the same time, with one exception...

    i like to talk through movies >.>

    sowwie
    Dare thanked this post.

  6. #21976
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkle View Post
    Have you been approached by a passion evangelist christian before? I need help dealing with them.

    I don't want to talk about religion, but they don't want to stop yapping, how do I get them to stop? I tried being an asshole, but that didn't work.

    I had to forcibly leave after a very uncomfortable altercation with that person today. Do you have a better way?
    As a former Christian, yes, I can tell you a better way... Get an evil look on your face, rub your hands together gleefully, and say something like, "I'm a Satanist, I've always wanted to convert one of you people!" Odds are good they'll get very uncomfortable and make excuses to leave. With Jehovah's Witnesses, say something like, "You know, there have already been more than 144,000 Witnesses, so odds are, you're not getting in." Besides the confusion created because you already know something about the religion, the worry you create will make them dislike you.
    Mick Travis thanked this post.

  7. #21977

    There was a thread about this in the INTP forum and I was going to replicate it but then decided it didn't really warrant its own thread:

    Describe your work space

    I have an office as well as a desk in a different area of the clinic.

    My office is meticulously organized:

    I have a 6' x 4' whiteboard - 2/3 is dedicated to maintenance schedules and notes regarding machines/systems/IT while the other 1/3 is my "scratch paper." It is my favorite thing to stand there for god only knows how long and develop/troubleshoot/hone ideas. Underneath it is a bookcase with diagnostic reference books that the veterinarians turn to for more obscure cases.

    I have an "L" shaped desk with a hutch on one side. On top of the hutch are numerous bins, categorized and labeled.

    I have a second (much smaller) whiteboard for surgery schedules and referrals.

    Everything is filed, everything is neat, it appears barren due to its organization. It is my most productive area. This is where I repair the machines and do almost all of my thinking/planning. It is not uncommon for me to stop what I'm doing somewhere else in the clinic and walk to my office and start writing notes on my whiteboard.

    My desk is another story:

    Organized chaos. I'm not at this desk often and people dump things there. I mainly use this desk for lab matters - specimens that need to go to specialty labs are put there (or a note that it's in the fridge/freezer, respectively.) It's where people leave me notes about whatever random crap they want me to know/need me to do. I do a lot of research here (and a lot of messing around when I don't have much to do or need a "stop thinking about it" break from whatever I'm working on in my office) and where I hangout when the vets are in my office looking at xrays and ultrasounds. I usually eat here (yes, sometimes with samples on my desk.)

    So basically categorized, prioritized piles. Sticky notes all over. An outbox that I never feel like filing except once every 2-3 months (it's mostly hard copies of things I've already saved digitally.) A phone with about 40 speed dial slots because I don't like to look up phone numbers (and I don't have to!) A drawer full of candy, napkins, and extra utensils. Basically efficiency as a way to compensate for a decent level of laziness.

    I am not the neatest person at home but at work, the difference between my desk (a more public/less "focused" area) and my office (less public/more productive area) is markedly paradoxical. It seems that the function of an area dictates how neat I will be motivated to keep it.

    I'm curious about that aspect for you as well: does your work space mirror your living space?
    Last edited by stathamspeacoat; 03-20-2017 at 10:35 AM.

  8. #21978
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by stathamspeacoat View Post

    Describe your work space
    I'm curious about that aspect for you as well: does your work space mirror your living space?
    yes in that its junky, but its my kinda junky, i.e. i know where everything is and should be. Heaven help the person who decides to move something of mine on my desk..omg

    when im with a neat-freak, though i do tend to "sort of" tidy up the rest of the house--more for their sake? but idunno. its really hard to explain. nobody would ever look at my place and call it dirty, but you could never call it neat either.

    clean n messy? if thats a thing

    everything is simply as it should be (for me)
    stathamspeacoat thanked this post.

  9. #21979

    Quote Originally Posted by Mzku View Post
    yes in that its junky, but its my kinda junky, i.e. i know where everything is and should be. Heaven help the person who decides to move something of mine on my desk..omg

    when im with a neat-freak, though i do tend to "sort of" tidy up the rest of the house--more for their sake? but idunno. its really hard to explain. nobody would ever look at my place and call it dirty, but you could never call it neat either.

    clean n messy? if thats a thing

    everything is simply as it should be (for me)
    Yeah, that sounds a lot like me. There's a level of "clean" that I feel is a waste of time, especially for someone that lives mostly alone and rarely has people over.

    As for moving things in my office or on my desk - it happened once. They "cleaned" my desk. I asked why, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I got attitude as a response instead of a reasonable answer (and there was an acceptable reason so idk what the attitude was about.) I left, spent 4 hours composing a very thorough email that included a lot of points such as the definition of workplace respect, how it was a violation of personal space, and all of the reasons this was intrusive and insulting. I then proceeded to list every single management issue within the office (the office manager, a total Sensor, gave the directive to clean my desk. The employee who did it later told me that she was very frightened to do, knowing how I would probably react, and expressed this reluctance to the office manager prior to cleaning it haha) and how my desk situation should have been the least likely area for her to focus time, energy and resources on. I basically said if this is how things are going to be, then this work environment is no longer compatible with me.

    That's why I was interviewing last month: 1. to explore my options and 2. to put the fear of god in them. I ended up getting a raise (even after refusing to sign a contract like they wanted me to.)
    Mzku and RexMaximus thanked this post.

  10. #21980
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by stathamspeacoat View Post
    Yeah, that sounds a lot like me. There's a level of "clean" that I feel is a waste of time, especially for someone that lives mostly alone and rarely has people over.

    As for moving things in my office or on my desk - it happened once. They "cleaned" my desk. I asked why, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I got attitude as a response instead of a reasonable answer (and there was an acceptable reason so idk what the attitude was about.) I left, spent 4 hours composing a very thorough email that included a lot of points such as the definition of workplace respect, how it was a violation of personal space, and all of the reasons this was intrusive and insulting. I then proceeded to list every single management issue within the office (the office manager, a total Sensor, gave the directive to clean my desk. The employee who did it later told me that she was very frightened to do, knowing how I would probably react, and expressed this reluctance to the office manager prior to cleaning it haha) and how my desk situation should have been the least likely area for her to focus time, energy and resources on. I basically said if this is how things are going to be, then this work environment is no longer compatible with me.

    That's why I was interviewing last month: 1. to explore my options and 2. to put the fear of god in them. I ended up getting a raise (even after refusing to sign a contract like they wanted me to.)
    everything you just said gave me a mental hernia. but yea. all of that
    stathamspeacoat thanked this post.


     

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