[bethdeth]

Yes, Bethdeth, it has been an interesting chat. Here is what I have learned about myself. As an INTJ with enneagram one, I am completely values driven and see everything in terms of values, so I seem to fall into the "holier than thou" negative projection by others rather than the INTJ 5 "smarter than thou". So I can assume that people tend to see me as arrogant in the values category.



I now see this is major closed-mindedness on my part in that I incorrectly assume everyone is doing what they are doing according to their values and it doesn't occur to me that people aren't trying to maintain near-perfect values. I wouldn't even suspect an INTJ of having bad behavior. I would always assume they had checked out the moral implications of their actions and were behaving according to their belief, and that if I didnt' like it it was because I didn't understand their beliefs. For me, values are public, not private. Maybe for INTJ 5s values are private along with emotions. So discussing values publicly is seen as rude by an INTJ 5.

In the same way that INTJs can't imagine that someone hasn't thought of all sides of an argument before they present it, I imagine everyone has inspected their behavior to fit their values to the nth degree before they act. And this comes off as sanctimonious to others. It does come from my closedmindedness, thinking that INTJ 5s are going to have the values component. That was a wrong assumption and definitely something I can work on in relation to other types as well.

To respond to what you said about most people on this subforum believing that not caring at all about others' thoughts or feelings is a sort of a goal or a state to achieve, and the less you care about others' response to you the better, I would say that would fall more into the INTJ 5 category and would not be a goal of a one at all. We seem to be a little more community-minded than 5s or maybe have more sense of social responsibility. My take on being ostracized as a freak by non-INTJs is not to try to find INTJs and basically say "fuck you" to the world (although I fight that urge), my take is to figure out why they are misunderstanding me so I can better explain/present myself and try again with them.

So in my closedmindedness it definitely did not occur to me that the people in this subforum were actually trying to not care what others think and feel about them. I assumed the reason people are here, besides to share the experience of our "identity" is to learn why others have been not understanding us, and to get to a place where we can bridge that translation gap so that we can connect to others outside of our type.

I am also going to assume that since this is an open forum, that it doesn't matter who the individual members are, but it is a place that is open for people who don't share that belief to be and a place where one's can express their beliefs as well unless you want to have a private INTJ 5 subforum. As an INTJ one, I don't have judgment on your beliefs. I may choose to stay away from you in my personal life if I don't like your values, but this group doesn't have anything to do with my personal life, so I don't mind people with that belief being here.

But it seems like this group does have to do with your personal life, and the presence of someone who values others' thoughts and feelings is going to be uncomfortable or oppressive for you in the same way that being with an INTJ who doesn't believe in social responsibility would be uncomfortable in my personal life. I don't know how to solve that conflict since it is a public forum.

I'm an enneagram 9....but don't bother trying to re-frame another baseless manipulative argument around it....I'm done.

I chose to let you know about the projecting because I have a problem with people jumping to conclusions and going on an attack based on false assumptions. There were many of them in there. My intelligence was insulted by the assumption that if I agree with another INTJ that doesn't make them right it just makes me a minion. It was the start of bullying behaviour towards a fellow INTJ and I didn't want to stand by and see the "interesting chat" turn into a character assassination attempt. Yes I'm sure that anti can hold her own here....the thing is: Why the fuck does she have to? Because you deem it so? I was further insulted by the assumption that I was PMming people and asking them to ignore you....that would make me something like 12 years old surely? Crazy!

I have no qualms about saying that you are attacking based on assumptions then acting like it's actually me perpetrating some type of drama....this isn't about me. It's not about the MBTI, Sociology or anything that's remotely intelligent. It was simply a baseless attack on someone who you thought was being different and not giving a fuck whether she hurts others.....It's actually not an accurate assessment about her....but more your own projections. The manipulations in what followed has astounded me to say the least. I would have thought a "rational" person would have seen the logic fail at the first train stop on the crazy train....but it didn't. I won't respond to any more of these quotes. I'm simply bored shitless trying to get you to catch up. It won't happen in the near future. Sorry...you're on my ignore list. I haven't asked anyone else to ignore you.....I just don't care enough. Bye now.

[lolthevoidlol]

@Pillow - time for neighborhood posters?

[Pillow]

@Pillow - time for neighborhood posters?

We're going to try to get him to leave after he wakes up, but he's been asleep for over an hour. I'm sure if we can get him to go outside then he'll be able to find his way home...

[MissJordan]

Introducing the MBTI to a cute girl.


Wish me luck, everyone....

[Abraxas]

Log into PerC.

Read notifications.

Respond to quotes.

Spend ten minutes browsing around, find my way to the INTJ sub-forum.

Five more minutes scrolling through active threads.

Maybe post.

Mark all read.

Log out.

12 hours later, repeat.

[MissJordan]

Log into PerC.

Read notifications.

Respond to quotes.

Spend ten minutes browsing around, find my way to the INTJ sub-forum.

Five more minutes scrolling through active threads.

Maybe post.

Mark all read.

Log out.

12 hours later, repeat.

I'll see you in 12 hours, when this cycle repeats.

[Blue Ocean]

We have been adopted by a cat.

Cats are evil. All they really want is to use their cuteness to manipulate you...

[Pillow]

We tricked the cat into going outside and shut the door. Then he sat on our front step for a while, and when we went back to look about half an hour later he had gone. He only wanted us for our bacon

[OwLY]

I just realized that at least 3 of my close friends from middle school were ESFPs.

I don't talk to them anymore, but what the hell? Was I drawn to them or something? I was never remotely extroverted in my youth, so this revelation is a little strange for myself. Requires more pondering and introspection...

[antiant]

I just realized that at least 3 of my close friends from middle school were ESFPs.

I don't talk to them anymore, but what the hell? Was I drawn to them or something? I was never remotely extroverted in my youth, so this revelation is a little strange for myself. Requires more pondering and introspection...

ESFP = Se Fi Te Ni.
INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se.