[calliope]

There wasn't any drama to begin with. Sociological perspectives usually involve more than one person too. It's not controversy when you do that...it's scrutiny that really wasn't called for. I will stop about this, yes....I really just have to reiterate that I did understand what you were saying but the logical flow led to invalid point after invalid point so we can only be left wondering why you have singled out individuals and tried to show those individuals up as a study....

I wasn't making a point. I converse occasionally with antiant and she talks to me about her value system when I ask. She admits publicly that she does things that go against the status quo in terms of social etiquette. She is open about talking about her values. I do not believe in living my lifestyle in a traditional way. I respect others for living it their way as well. I find her behavior on this forum outrageous. I find outrageous behavior interesting and at times fun. I find your behavior on this forum traditional and within conventional etiquette standards. I respect your choices as well.



She admits that her behavior is non-traditional. Why should she feel bad about talking about it? If she wants to live her life by not using other peoples' feelings to affect her decisions, who am I to say that is horrible? It seems very INTJ, as a matter of fact. I don't have the guts to say whatever I want to others. When I see her behavior I get shocked. I recognize that maybe I could use a little more of what she is doing, otherwise why would I get so shocked. I am willing to accept other ways of thinking, but I like to examine them, particularly when I am afraid of them.


It is a question of not perceiving the concept of behaviors from a personal standpoint. As I said, I wouldn't talk about your behavior publicly, ever. But, yes, someone who is out about their not following social rules and who has very defined identity, I feel that I can ask any question. Like, "Hey, did you really mean that you are laughing at us and we are a joke intellectually?" I can ask that to her. She made the statement, and I can ask.

Also, if she is telling newcomers that their posts are unwanted when they are new on our subforum, I can say, "Wow. That would be interpreted as really bad in the outside world," and ask her, without insulting her, what her beliefs about it are. Of course I know she isn't hazing people. But I would never just criticize someone right out on their choice of post content unless I knew them well. Why? Because I care what others think about that. So who is correct, me or her? Am I more correct because I choose to care what others think?

These are very interesting questions for me and it applies directly to my life, that spectrum of taking other people's feelings and thoughts into account. Yeah, if she is willing to talk, I am willing to ask her. Talking about others' behavior is very controversial. But that's what we are here for.

[SaiKick]

This is exactly what pisses me about string theory , Quantum Mechanics and QFT in general , I mean i enjoy the mathematical aspect, It's awesome but the theories are pointless !

wow, all these years I thought that I was NOT a visual learner

turns out, all it took was your cool image to teach me all I ever needed to know about that theory... HAHA

thx @Einsteinette

I promise I was going to make the following comment b4 realizing your avatar name: I <3 Einstein!

[bethdeth]

I wasn't making a point. I converse occasionally with antiant and she talks to me about her value system when I ask. She admits publicly that she does things that go against the status quo in terms of social etiquette. She is open about talking about her values. I do not believe in living my lifestyle in a traditional way. I respect others for living it their way as well. I find her behavior on this forum outrageous. I find outrageous behavior interesting and at times fun. I find your behavior on this forum traditional and within conventional etiquette standards. I respect your choices as well.

She admits that her behavior is non-traditional. Why should she feel bad about talking about it? If she wants to live her life by not using other peoples' feelings to affect her decisions, who am I to say that is horrible? It seems very INTJ, as a matter of fact. I don't have the guts to say whatever I want to others. When I see her behavior I get shocked. I recognize that maybe I could use a little more of what she is doing, otherwise why would I get so shocked. I am willing to accept other ways of thinking, but I like to examine them, particularly when I am afraid of them.


It is a question of not perceiving the concept of behaviors from a personal standpoint. As I said, I wouldn't talk about your behavior publicly, ever. But, yes, someone who is out about their not following social rules and who has very defined identity, I feel that I can ask any question. Like, "Hey, did you really mean that you are laughing at us and we are a joke intellectually?" I can ask that to her. She made the statement, and I can ask.

Also, if she is telling newcomers that their posts are unwanted when they are new on our subforum, I can say, "Wow. That would be interpreted as really bad in the outside world," and ask her, without insulting her, what her beliefs about it are. Of course I know she isn't hazing people. But I would never just criticize someone right out on their choice of post content unless I knew them well. Why? Because I care what others think about that. So who is correct, me or her? Am I more correct because I choose to care what others think?

These are very interesting questions for me and it applies directly to my life, that spectrum of taking other people's feelings and thoughts into account. Yeah, if she is willing to talk, I am willing to ask her. Talking about others' behavior is very controversial. But that's what we are here for.

Pretty much antiant is an archetypal INTJ. I don't understand the intrigue. She's just one of the INTJs here. Her thinking is paralleled with the way that I think so I guess we are both either each others "minions" or we are both INTJs because we happen to agree on a lot of things. I don't live traditionally and a hell of a lot of others don't either. Matter of fact I would say I live a life like a freak. I don't give two flying rat's arses what people think about it either....I just would rather not....it's pretty damn boring repeating the same thing.

The thing is this; If I didn't want to talk about it I wouldn't and this is precisely what antiant is doing yet you continued to post negative trait after negative trait and could not handle the fact that it was pointed out you were doing exactly hat you were accusing her of.....please get your shit together and get the story straight....you are making it all up as you go along. It's not controversial, It's just plain fucking rude. You've dragged people in around by saying they are more or less falling over themselves at some weird phenomenon you made up in your head. Call her behaviour hazing, then say it isn't, call it sociology? WTF? Yet still you are clinging to some semblance that what you were saying was not rude, was objective and was just merely controversial....

These are some of the reasons why I don't post too many personal things here....I don't like the attention of being judged and called out for things that aren't real...I have no clue why you take people's choices and turn them around to look like moral choices....they aren't your choices to make and sit in judgement and bring the forum to talk about it you...and your choices....it's definitely not a sociological perspective.


It's all a repeat of that time you started calling few INTJ women bitches....WTF is with that? You held yourself as an example back then on how behaviour was supposed to be and you did the same this time too with the holier than thou attitude towards "hazing antiant". Wow...things really turned from those comments to mere interest.

[Josie777]

I found myself pondering over how someone with such a lack of common sense could survive in this world. I often find I'm truly surrounded by idiots who fail to understand how my brain works. which comes as a great annoyance to me. It's also comes off as quite frustrating when it's so simple for me to comprehend something while my peers fail to see or are to lazy to look at what's clearly (or should be?) staring them right in the face. Even with very close friends and family members I find that I constantly have to explain myself. It's mentally exhausting. In fact I can only really handle constant physical presence with another human for barely 24 hours with out time to myself even then I become irritated and easily annoyed. As an example: a friend and I were taking a walk along a busy road and I noticed the trash that littered the Earth. Of course I then launched into a massive rant of environmental issues and how someone could be so stupid when it's common sense to just recycle /throw away their own trash instead of being inconsiderate assholes (who I would really like to just kick a can of trash on to let them know how the earth feels in hope of them learning a little common sense for the great amount they lack) afterwards I only received a blank stare and a simple statement of Of how I knew this and why was I wasting my time worrying about world issues when I'm to "young" to be worrying about such. Instead I should be worrying more of common things with teenage girls such as boys. Which I find is absolute b.s and a waste of time.

I suppose I'm done ranting for a bit. :/

[calliope]

Pretty much antiant is an archetypal INTJ. I don't understand the intrigue. She's just one of the INTJs here. Her thinking is paralleled with the way that I think so I guess we are both either each others "minions" or we are both INTJs because we happen to agree on a lot of things. I don't live traditionally and a hell of a lot of others don't either. Matter of fact I would say I live a life like a freak. I don't give two flying rat's arses what people think about it either....I just would rather not....it's pretty damn boring repeating the same thing.

The thing is this; If I didn't want to talk about it I wouldn't and this is precisely what antiant is doing yet you continued to post negative trait after negative trait and could not handle the fact that it was pointed out you were doing exactly hat you were accusing her of.....please get your shit together and get the story straight....you are making it all up as you go along. It's not controversial, It's just plain fucking rude. You've dragged people in around by saying they are more or less falling over themselves at some weird phenomenon you made up in your head. Call her behaviour hazing, then say it isn't, call it sociology? WTF? Yet still you are clinging to some semblance that what you were saying was not rude, was objective and was just merely controversial....

These are some of the reasons why I don't post too many personal things here....I don't like the attention of being judged and called out for things that aren't real...I have no clue why you take people's choices and turn them around to look like moral choices....they aren't your choices to make and sit in judgement and bring the forum to talk about it you...and your choices....it's definitely not a sociological perspective.


It's all a repeat of that time you started calling few INTJ women bitches....WTF is with that? You held yourself as an example back then on how behaviour was supposed to be and you did the same this time too with the holier than thou attitude towards "hazing antiant". Wow...things really turned from those comments to mere interest.

Bethdeth, why do you care about what I think or feel? I don't have emotions towards you. I don't have emotions towards anyone here except for gratefulness that I have gotten amazing information that is putting pieces of a puzzle together. I am very grateful to people here who have answered my questions and contributed to my understanding. Do I want to get involved with your emotional drama? No. I don't care that much. I find behavior interesting. I am sorry it is so personal with you. I am sorry you thought I had brewing angry or judgmental thoughts towards the people on this forum.

I hear the angry and judgmental thoughts you have towards me. I am not here for emotions, so I have no idea what to do with yours. I respect the other people on this subforum. No one presents a problem for me. I guess if you want to take a group vote and have people throw me out or pm everyone to put me on ignore, you can do that. If you want me to just never respond to your posts I guess I could do that. Other than that I can just say, I get how you feel about me. Now I would like to proceed with getting more MBTI information from the people on this forum unless there is more you want to say to me. I am willing to listen.

[Faklubrejle]

Dobrý den!

Ahoj. :)
--------
When I posted the first post, I had been tired (past 1 AM) and the music post also touched on the ENFP that does not love me back. That's another reason I was pissed and let the dark side speak. Is there a better way of invading an already established friend structure than to come in with force lightning flashing? (To sum it up: I explain the bad first impression.)

[MissJordan]

Looking through a (very old) thread, I found a post by Mei.

I also found that I thanked it...


Urban Dictionary: dry heave

[bethdeth]

Bethdeth, why do you care about what I think or feel? I don't have emotions towards you. I don't have emotions towards anyone here except for gratefulness that I have gotten amazing information that is putting pieces of a puzzle together. I am very grateful to people here who have answered my questions and contributed to my understanding. Do I want to get involved with your emotional drama? No. I don't care that much. I find behavior interesting. I am sorry it is so personal with you. I am sorry you thought I had brewing angry or judgmental thoughts towards the people on this forum.

I hear the angry and judgmental thoughts you have towards me. I am not here for emotions, so I have no idea what to do with yours. I respect the other people on this subforum. No one presents a problem for me. I guess if you want to take a group vote and have people throw me out or pm everyone to put me on ignore, you can do that. If you want me to just never respond to your posts I guess I could do that. Other than that I can just say, I get how you feel about me. Now I would like to proceed with getting more MBTI information from the people on this forum unless there is more you want to say to me. I am willing to listen.

Well.....

Since you asked. I'm not fond of being taken on some emotional argument which is actually about logic from my end. This has never really been about the way I feel about things, but instead of using logic, you go right ahead and turn this around and make it about me.

I am pulling you up on logic. This seems to be something you missed back at the first train stop in "halfwaysensibleVille". I actually really don't feel anything about you at all. The fact that you singled one person out, proceeded to pick out what you perceived was a list of bad behaviours that were theirs. When it was pointed out you were wrong in some areas, you still proceeded to have your say about your ideas on what their behaviour was whilst ignoring that it was your behaviour that you were actually describing. You haven't actually stopped talking about someone else's behaviour the entire time, which is odd.

Then at the end try and make it some emotional drama that I have perpetuated?

I have only been holding a mirror up.

Now I have simply turned the argument towards trying to gets to the fact of what the issues at hand are and away from projection and conjecture about other members. Bullying someone in a public forum about behaviours that are less about them, even less about sociological perspectives and even less about MBTI then trying to twist it to someone else being a perpetrator is just more logic fail. Instead of just shutting up you continue with the logic fail and make out that it's something personal with me. It's not personal. I'm just trying to get the understanding as to why you have done this from a "psychological perspective".

Why on earth would I PM everyone? They are seeing all this and trying to get on with their own streams of conscious venting, waiting for this to stop. Why would this be about anything that I want? Really....the only person who is emotional here is you...

If you had decided to stop back when you told me to stop, I would have obliged....it just seemed as though you had something further to project about others. Not judging really, simply pointing out that it's about time that it stopped being about others and more about you and what your behaviours are.


It's been an "interesting chat".

[Pillow]

We have been adopted by a cat.

Woke up this morning to the sound of a cat meowing frantically. Looked out of the window and a little black and white cat was staring at our window from across the road. My husband went downstairs and meowed at it until it decided to cross the road and come straight into our house. We let it stay for a bit, then tried to get it to go outside (it has a collar on so we figured it has an owner) but it just stood at the top of the stairs and nipped us until we let it back into the living room. Now it is asleep on our sofa.

Cat.jpg

OK, so I guess we kind of stole it. But now it doesn't want to leave and just keeps sleeping.

[calliope]

Yes, Bethdeth, it has been an interesting chat. Here is what I have learned about myself. As an INTJ with enneagram one, I am completely values driven and see everything in terms of values, so I seem to fall into the "holier than thou" negative projection by others rather than the INTJ 5 "smarter than thou". So I can assume that people tend to see me as arrogant in the values category.

I now see this is major closed-mindedness on my part in that I incorrectly assume everyone is doing what they are doing according to their values and it doesn't occur to me that people aren't trying to maintain near-perfect values. I wouldn't even suspect an INTJ of having bad behavior. I would always assume they had checked out the moral implications of their actions and were behaving according to their belief, and that if I didnt' like it it was because I didn't understand their beliefs. For me, values are public, not private. Maybe for INTJ 5s values are private along with emotions. So discussing values publicly is seen as rude by an INTJ 5.

In the same way that INTJs can't imagine that someone hasn't thought of all sides of an argument before they present it, I imagine everyone has inspected their behavior to fit their values to the nth degree before they act. And this comes off as sanctimonious to others. It does come from my closedmindedness, thinking that INTJ 5s are going to have the values component. That was a wrong assumption and definitely something I can work on in relation to other types as well.

To respond to what you said about most people on this subforum believing that not caring at all about others' thoughts or feelings is a sort of a goal or a state to achieve, and the less you care about others' response to you the better, I would say that would fall more into the INTJ 5 category and would not be a goal of a one at all. We seem to be a little more community-minded than 5s or maybe have more sense of social responsibility. My take on being ostracized as a freak by non-INTJs is not to try to find INTJs and basically say "fuck you" to the world (although I fight that urge), my take is to figure out why they are misunderstanding me so I can better explain/present myself and try again with them.

So in my closedmindedness it definitely did not occur to me that the people in this subforum were actually trying to not care what others think and feel about them. I assumed the reason people are here, besides to share the experience of our "identity" is to learn why others have been not understanding us, and to get to a place where we can bridge that translation gap so that we can connect to others outside of our type.

I am also going to assume that since this is an open forum, that it doesn't matter who the individual members are, but it is a place that is open for people who don't share that belief to be and a place where one's can express their beliefs as well unless you want to have a private INTJ 5 subforum. As an INTJ one, I don't have judgment on your beliefs. I may choose to stay away from you in my personal life if I don't like your values, but this group doesn't have anything to do with my personal life, so I don't mind people with that belief being here.

But it seems like this group does have to do with your personal life, and the presence of someone who values others' thoughts and feelings is going to be uncomfortable or oppressive for you in the same way that being with an INTJ who doesn't believe in social responsibility would be uncomfortable in my personal life. I don't know how to solve that conflict since it is a public forum.