[lilmunchkin]

Different people have different definitions for "productivity".

Productivity means a completely different thing depending on short term view and long term view.


Unfortunately most people consider being really busy the same thing as being really productive. And if you try to explain this is not true they will get extremely upset and then you´re really not being productive. Stupidity is very self-sustaining.

I like this - I like ALL the replies, but this whole short vs. long term concept never so simply occured to me. I'm definitely a long-term productivity seeker. I maybe get distracted by the short-term idea of busyness = the only form of productivity though.

[lilmunchkin]

productivity = ok/ not productivity = guilt; that was really me, some years ago.

Simply, it didn't work.

playing Zelda/watching Scrubs IS a waste? Yes, no excuses.
Does it make your life better? Yes. If it wouldn't, you would stop doing it. *
So, waste of time is useful in its own way...far beyond the 'work smarter' idea (which has its good ground, also).


* This could apply only to INTJ but we are talking of ourselves here XD

I guess I should explain further (to myself and you all). I don't just want productivity; it's very true that even doing something like watching TV is accomplishing a task. I want admirable productivity though. Darnit! I DON'T want vanity, and this is what this is, right?

[talemin]

Can't say, you confused me a little here. I was assuming that we were speking ONLY of useful tasks, and useful tasks accomplished should be the only definition of 'productivity'.

So, i was saying that playing Zelda improves the life of the player -> its useful (to the player) -> it's productive

To be quite honest, on the other hand for me it's not so 'productive', say, gaining a lot of charity money with one day of my work, if i don't like the job and don't care for the charity project. Even if this should be the top definition of 'objective' productivity - doing, being busy AND have a tangible gain from this - , shouldn't be?

So, are you talking of this, objective productivity, and am i meaning 'personal' one, given that we speak of satisfaction and guilt? Selfish productivity which is really worth only as a byproduct...(ex: if i like the work and/or the charity project/destinataries)

ok...i entangled myself in perspective XD

[lilmunchkin]

^^ You're on to something (about me that I thank you for because I haven't figured it out myself yet). Can you go into selfish productivity more? That "feels" like what I mean. Having the "feeling" that this is what I'm talking about, is this an intuitive process at work? (just curious)

[Michael]

I think I have figured out how to manage this "being driven" INTJ thing. But it's taken a long time.

For what it's worth, here's my story.

I have always been driven to achieve and accomplish something. They say that INTJ's live to repeatedly prove to themselves that they are competent. Repeatedly is the key, because it never stops. Even when it's time for a break.

We have a vision of something we can create, or change, or improve upon, and then we set out on the path to do it.

When I am deeply immersed in the flow of my favorite project, I am quite happy. Damn near ecstatic.

However when I am not in the flow for awhile, I can get very cranky. I start to feel guilty that I'm not achieving anything. I start to become overly critical of myself. And others.

It is very rough on those around me.

Once I get back in the flow of working on my project, then I am fine again.

The high from being in the flow can last a few hours after the work has stopped.

But, if I'm not achieving something again in 3-4 hours I start to get crany again.

The absolute worst case is when I was much younger, there were times I would get bored because I didn't have a project to pour myself into.

I used to live in fear of being bored.

I can safely say that I have not been bored, and without a meaningful project for over 13 years. The solution was to create a very meaningful project that is 100 percent in line with my purpose in life. This project is essentially infinite. I can work on it forever.

Basically I created a business that challenges me technically and creatively.

The work involves several sub projects and activities, most of which (aside from the accounting part) keep me motivated and fulfilled.

But back to this thread - the guilt an INTJ has when they aren't achieving or learning.

I found that whenever I complete a big project, at first I celebrate, but then I feel cranky and guilty. So when I should be enjoying the sense of accomplishment, I'm feeling like I should be doing something.

This has happened so often now, that I recognize this "gap" that occurs between periods of creativity and productivity. Once I recognize I'm in gap, I just remind myself that these brief interludes are necessary breaks between periods of high energy creativity. So I allow myself to goof off. I allow myself to spend time on something that may not be productive.

Because I know that as an INTJ I will soon be driving myself hard again.

Sorry for the long reply. I can ramble when i' on my fav subjects.

[lilmunchkin]

Michael I LOVE LOVE LOVE your post! That was so beautiful it hurts so much!!! You have GOT IT! Don't feel bad about going on and on because I got upset when I had to stop reading because I finished your post. Wow. Someone's never been so dead on! Ok - eeesh. Does that need to be majorly excited when you're very greatful affect anyone else? I think I'm done.

[jbking]

Achiever that may also be useful in seeing why some people have a "go, go, go" mentality at times. When I took the "Strengths Finder 2.0" assessment, this came up as my second strength, Learner being the first on the list. It is an interesting strength in some ways but also kind of vague in terms of achieving what specifically.

[talemin]

^^ You're on to something (about me that I thank you for because I haven't figured it out myself yet). Can you go into selfish productivity more? That "feels" like what I mean. Having the "feeling" that this is what I'm talking about, is this an intuitive process at work? (just curious)

Can't say if this is intuitive, your statement 'feels' seems more apt in this.

Now that you make me think, my almost-definition of 'selfish productivity' seems a reharsal of the activity definition i found years ago in one Fromm's work - can't remember which but I liked it ^^'.
He said a lot on 'being active' that was not 'being busy' nor 'gaining money' - or some other material good - but produced a state of well-being. (I liked it because i agree :P)

And yes, I must admit the everlasting inner climbing Michael describes was mine, but i shifted aim with years (and the piling of some results ok).
Perhaps age counts as well.

[Schadenfreude]

When I'm supposed to be doing something really important and I'm not doing it, I feel guilty. But if I have free time, I can just relax and chill. But every time I do that, something comes into my mind and I just spend my "cill" time thinking about that idea.