[INTJ] Which is her type? - Page 2

Which is her type?

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This is a discussion on Which is her type? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Maybe you shouldn't think about it too hard? And think outside of MBTI stereotypes? Just admire how much of an ...

  1. #11
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Maybe you shouldn't think about it too hard? And think outside of MBTI stereotypes? Just admire how much of an enigma she is. :)
    Eliyahu thanked this post.

  2. #12
    INTJ - The Scientists

    And which is the answer?... Occam's razor...

    INTJ AND INFP [INTP (typo)] BOTH !



    by
    Douglass J. Wilde
    Stanford University
    wilde@stanford.edu



    Quantitative analysis [9] of the MBTI® scores
    shows that the answer to the question “Is it INTJ
    or INTP?” is — BOTH! This is because when the
    J/P score is less than the I score, as seems to be
    assumed in this discussion, the type is “doubly-
    introverted”, as proven rigorously in pp. 67-9 of
    Wilde, D. J. (2011) “Jung’s personality theory
    quantified”, Springer, London, subsequently
    referred to as “JPTQ”. Consequently it has
    dominant and auxiliary attitudes that are BOTH
    introverted. The “doubleversion” phenomenon
    has been noted previously by (June) Singer and
    Loomis, Spoto, and Geldart.
    For INTj, (here the “j” is lower case to
    emphasize its smallness) introverted (not
    extraverted) thinking Ti is thus in the second
    “good parent” position rather than in the sixth
    “critical parent” position where Te truly resides.
    So Ti is not “hijacking” Te; the confusion comes
    from using conventional “type dynamics” (TD)
    theory instead analyzing quantitatively.
    Disturbingly for MBTI® practitioners,
    quantitative theory contradicts TD’s “attitude
    balance” rule that the auxiliary attitude must
    differ from that of the dominant, which for INTj
    would have extraverted thinking Te auxiliary to
    contrast with the dominant Ni. It happens
    however that Te is in this case a third
    “subsidiary” function-attitude (hereafter called
    “(cognitive) mode” to avoid confusion with the
    previously defined words “function” and
    “attitude”). The two subsidiary modes, which
    complete the quartet formulated by Jung, are
    overlooked by TD’s consideration of only the
    dominant and auxiliary modes. For INTj, the
    second subsidiary mode Ne will usually have a
    negligible “slight” score less than 20% (6 out of
    MBTI®’s possible 30).
    Mark, your discussion makes you sound like a
    double-introvert. Send me your MBTI® scores
    and I’ll unpack them to obtain your mode scores.
    You’re in for another surprise if your T score
    exceeds your N score, contradicting another
    unreliable TD assumption.
    If you would like a feel of the arithmetic before
    tackling the rigorous JPTQ book, here is a
    “packing table” showing the cognitive mode
    scores for a set of INTj scores reasonably
    describing the situation at hand. The
    questionnaire scores 60%I, 60%N, 60%T, 20%j
    “unpack” into the mode scores 50%Ni, 40%Ti,
    20%Te, 10%Ne. Each row gives the score points
    generated for each questionnaire variable by the
    row’s mode. The column sums then match the
    questionnaire scores, PROVING the correctness
    of the transformation of questionnaire scores
    into mode scores.
    The mode scores show why the personality
    description for INTj should involve both INTJ
    and INTP type table descriptions. The INTJ
    description combines those for the Ni and Te
    mode descriptions; INTP, for Ti and Ne. A crude
    way of understanding the distribution of
    emphasis is given by averaging the
    questionnaire scores to obtain 50% for INTJ and
    40% for INTP – almost equal. Thus INTj can be
    seen as “bi-typal”, to coin an uncomfortable new
    word.
    To keep this note from being too upsettingly
    long, discussion of the subsidiary modes, which
    seem to drift into the shadow, will be withheld
    until you ask for it.
    INTj PACKING TABLE
    Mode Mode P-mode 60%I 60%N 60%T 20%J
    identification scores or J-mode?
    Dominant 50%Ni J 50i 50n 50j
    Auxiliary 40%Ti P 40i 40t -40j
    Dominant subsidiary 10%Ne P -10i 10n -10j
    Auxiliary subsidiary 20%Te J -20i 20t 20j
    Check: algebraic sum - - 60i 60n 60t 20j
    Question of the Day: INTJ or INTP?


    So, what do you think of the article?
    Last edited by Eliyahu; 06-18-2012 at 05:24 PM.

  3. #13
    INTJ - The Scientists

    What did her test say when she took it? It'd be easier to see what the test said, then compare it to what you reported, then see where the differences and similarities are. As a side note, I totally didn't read that intj/intp article =P Lazy lazy lazy~*~*~

  4. #14
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by rainsnake67 View Post
    ...article...

    So, what do you think of the article?
    I think any test of cognitive function or personality type is wildly inaccurate and unreliable. Since the article is based on the assumption that test scores mean something, I must dismiss it as based on a faulty premise.
    Eliyahu thanked this post.

  5. #15
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Scroticius View Post
    What did her test say when she took it? It'd be easier to see what the test said, then compare it to what you reported, then see where the differences and similarities are. As a side note, I totally didn't read that intj/intp article =P Lazy lazy lazy~*~*~

    2 diferent tests, 2 different results: INTP and INTJ with very low J.

    So, i see in her: Ti, Te (she can take charge of things and even make stuff by herself if she's not obeyed), some Fe ("how's your foot" kind of stuff) lots of fi (lots of moral values, she seems to hate corruption and she seems to be trustworthy), low Se (you may be in front of her and she may not notice you), low Si (awful memory, she's always losing stuff), don't know about her ni (although she's very absent minded) and i haven't notice her using Ne.

  6. #16
    INTJ - The Scientists

    LOL oh my...I'm so durp...I don't know why I didn't think of that possibility lmao. Hmm, well, yeah honestly don't get too worried trying to type her. At the end of the day, the observations of human behavior come first, THEN come labels to classify and section off different types of mental capabilities. Butttt, you can use MBTI to "guess" other possible aspects of her personality. Come to think of it, I don't recall why you're creepin on her type anyway =P Story time? XD
    Eliyahu thanked this post.

  7. #17
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Scroticius View Post
    I don't recall why you're creepin on her type anyway =P Story time? XD
    Because her typing is difficult and inaccurate and i'm trying to find out the limitations of typing systems, be called cognitive functions theory, mbti, socionics, etc...

    Let's make an experiment: let's take any woman, and an test her with mbti, and keep her results private, if she's somewhat outgoing, kind and fashionable tell her she's esfp and if she's reserved, nice and "clean" tell her that she's an isfj... My guess is that even if she's not esfp or isfj she'll tell you that you've been accurate...

    Take some handy and cautious man and tell him he's an istp (or some party guy and tell him he's estp) and he'll believe you.

  8. #18
    INTJ - The Scientists

    I think that mbti will always be affected by some kind of subjectivity of the typed one. I think most psychopaths would score as enfj based on their "responses".

    And cognitive functions responses will always be affected by the inability of the common man to understand terms as "big picture", "framework of thought", etc

  9. #19
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Girl View Post
    I think any test of cognitive function or personality type is wildly inaccurate and unreliable. Since the article is based on the assumption that test scores mean something, I must dismiss it as based on a faulty premise.
    Although i agree with you in that they are inaccurate, at least they provide some material that help us to understand less evolved minds (they're not insane, they're just different.... but how different?)

  10. #20
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by rainsnake67 View Post

    "I love the patterns because it is the way in which I learn, I try to find the pattern behind what I'm analyzing until that the object of analysis is made predictable, therefore understandable."

    "I'm always looking for the reason of being behind things, like the theory which from all emerged. Things should have logical consistency in its core points, I've always thought that the truth is like a great cake, each person may have a piece of cake, a different perspective of things, but making all those pieces together and rejoining the original cake we will arrive at the truth which has given birth to all these different perspectives, the original idea."

    "I have always wanted to be more clever than other people, not only in terms of having more knowledge than them (since that knowledge that can't be applied is meaningless), but as the case of being able to think faster than others, to predict their movements and make an more accurate decision, not so much in terms of morality, but in terms of the final outcome such and as it happens at chess games."

    "I'm always aware of the consequences of every action, whether they are favorable or unfavorable, and sometimes I think i've prevented things to happen stopped precisely for this high degree of caution with which I have always lived my life"
    These are very similar to a way that I would describe myself. As you can tell, I'm still unsure of my type, especially since I've seriously considered being, like the post you gave, a strange combination of cognitive functions, maybe something like Ni-Ti-Fi-Se-Te-Fi-Si-Ne-Fe. But I'm not sure that that is the right order for me at all, perhaps my Ni is down in the 5th or 6th place.

    First of all, there are many different sides to a personality, and cognitive functions only explains possible ways of judging and possible ways of perceiving. There could be other facets that we are not considering, but should be. The question is, what is her dominant way of judging, what is her dominant way of perceiving? It's very hard to tell with some people. Perhaps some people are just more aware of their own thoughts? Or more flexible in using more cognitive functions?

    The other interesting thing is Dario Nardi's research into how brain activity correlates with congnitive functions. Using a piece of equipment that can measure electrical activity in the brain, researchers have correlated activity in certain areas of the brain with certain abilities, and Dr Nardi took it one step further to correlate with cognitive functions. There are around 15 sections of the brain, and different groupings and types of patterns through the brain lead to different cognitive functions. It is very interesting, and from what I've read of his descriptions, I am definitely a Ni dom. It's a little less theory, and more research. The other thing is, though, that people who are left-handed have a 50% chance that their brain organization is different than most right-handers, meaning that sections of the brain that are beside each other are different, so different patterns would arise in the brain. So these people might not have the "normal" cognitive functions! Or they might not have the "normal" organization of cognitive functions. Now that is very interesting to me, because I'm ambidextrous, so it seems highly possible that I'm a completely non-normal personality.

    And, on that note, I would encourage you to just enjoy her interesting and unique personality, as I know some of my friends seem to enjoy mine.


     
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