[INTJ] The INTJ's 'Flaw'?

The INTJ's 'Flaw'?

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This is a discussion on The INTJ's 'Flaw'? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life? ...

  1. #1

    The INTJ's 'Flaw'?

    Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?

    This one time when my teacher was speaking towards the entirety of the class about being a follower such as following the trends or popular gimmicks in the internet were getting students in trouble. There's also the whole social media fiasco where student do this and student do that, pretty much I've come across that there's nothing i could relate to merely due to my nonintervention with people.

    In essence, where other people would enter an environment and think "Who should i get along with?" while the INTJ would think "Which people do i go to, to finish stuff the fastest?" or just a 'time to work' attitude?
    0bl1gatory, brightflashes, Dare and 1 others thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice Amarok View Post
    Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?

    This one time when my teacher was speaking towards the entirety of the class about being a follower such as following the trends or popular gimmicks in the internet were getting students in trouble. There's also the whole social media fiasco where student do this and student do that, pretty much I've come across that there's nothing i could relate to merely due to my nonintervention with people.

    In essence, where other people would enter an environment and think "Who should i get along with?" while the INTJ would think "Which people do i go to, to finish stuff the fastest?" or just a 'time to work' attitude?
    The things I love about INTJs are also the same things I hate, haha

    All strengths can also be weaknesses. It's great that INTJs don't 'just' follow the crowd. But truly great leaders must not only have the courage to stand out from the crowd to do the right thing, but also the humility to do the right thing even if it means the crowd is doing it already and following someone else. Standing out from the crowd just for the sake of not joining in, is just dumb.

  3. #3

    I have a social life with exactly the type of people I want to be social with. Other peoples' emphasis on unity is also the source of a lot of their strife. It is not at all integral for my happiness, success, well-being. Depends, ultimately, on what people choose to tolerate in their life. I don't want to tolerate much.

    As for work, work is for work. If I need to work with people to achieve something, I can/will do it. My preference will always be to do it alone, if possible. Too many people view work as social time.
    EyesOpen, RexMaximus and Dare thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice Amarok View Post
    Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?

    ...There's also the whole social media fiasco...

    In essence, where other people would enter an environment and think "Who should i get along with?" while the INTJ would think "Which people do i go to, to finish stuff the fastest?" or just a 'time to work' attitude?
    It still really surprises me that people will enter a work or school environment and view it through a social lens. I am there with a "time to work" attitude. That's quite literally what I am there for. This is about being focused rather than "too independent". I don't see this as a "flaw" in INTJ me, I see it as a strength or at least a level of maturity and correct perspective.

    The others there with their social anxiety over whether they fit in, where exactly they fit in and spreading their social neediness into the school/work space is annoying -- if anyone has a flaw, it is them. I don't do social media; I don't see the point and even if I did I am well aware that it's weaponized and am not interested in those games.

    Occasionally some 'mean girls' try to punish me for not playing the social game. Through dumb luck my ISTP best friend grew up to be the most popular guy (from sports), so between that and the fact that guys generally seem to like to say 'hi', these bullying/outcast attempts tend to backfire on them. So I am accepted as the funny/eccentric one (basically the accepted/popular version of weird) and am generally left alone.

    I'll be friendly and sociable (well my version anyway :) if I go to a party but I have zero interest in being 'social' in a school/work environment. I am happy with my (separate) social life. I'm sure that if someone spectacular happened to be in one of my classes we would become friends out of class.

    Basically I like being focused, like my work/social life separate and strongly dislike what I perceive to be social games containing insincerity and pressure to conform. I also wonder if friendships mean less to me than most. I value my close friends but if I ended up in life with only work I love, a husband I adore and a best friend who sees the vet occasionally, I'd be okay with that.

    I think other types sometimes view 'independence' as some sort of rage against the machine. A 'standing out from the crowd'. That's a very social way of viewing it. It's a lot quieter in reality. I'm just going about my business. I don't care what others are doing and I would prefer it if they didn't care what I choose to do either. Not social =/= anti social.
    EyesOpen, stathamspeacoat and Epictetus thanked this post.

  5. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dare View Post
    It still really surprises me that people will enter a work or school environment and view it through a social lens. I am there with a "time to work" attitude. That's quite literally what I am there for. This is about being focused rather than "too independent". I don't see this as a "flaw" in INTJ me, I see it as a strength or at least a level of maturity and correct perspective.
    ...............

    Basically I like being focused, like my work/social life separate and strongly dislike what I perceive to be social games containing insincerity and pressure to conform. I also wonder if friendships mean less to me than most. I value my close friends but if I ended up in life with only work I love, a husband I adore and a best friend who sees the vet occasionally, I'd be okay with that.

    I think other types sometimes view 'independence' as some sort of rage against the machine. A 'standing out from the crowd'. That's a very social way of viewing it. It's a lot quieter in reality. I'm just going about my business. I don't care what others are doing and I would prefer it if they didn't care what I choose to do either. Not social =/= anti social.
    Reading these INTJ posts makes me realise that colleagues might mistake me for an INTJ at work (if they knew about MBTI), because my behaviour is not dissimilar at first glance. In fact, I probably stand out more obviously, in that I'm known for sitting by myself and usually in a corner somewhere (we have a desk booking system, so we sit where we want), with headphones on - so people know not to speak to me. I'm often invited by little groups or teams to join them, either to sit with them, or join in some activity, which I might accept if I'm interested but will decline if I'm not. I don't actually 'Fe' that highly at work. I have an independent role, so I'm not part of a team, and I generally choose jobs where I have a large degree of autonomy to do what I want. I have actually avoided progressing in my career over the last 5 years or so, due to wanting to avoid having to manage a team (and therefore be in a team) again. Although, this may change soon. I'm not known for being chatty. I don't join after work socials. I am known as a serious minded and hard worker. I don't gossip. I don't have a 'crowd'.

    In my development objectives a couple of years ago (because we have to identify where we need 'development') I told my manager that I should learn to 'network' more, because I didn't know many people except the people I work with. And he (despite him knowing the names of every single person in the organisation) said to me 'not to bother' as "Those who know you and work with you respect you and think highly of you. The rest don't matter". So I happily gave up on that.

    I do understand that most INTJs don't just want to 'stand out from the crowd' for the sake of it. So I apologise for my earlier post suggesting that. What I wrote I think applies as much to myself as to INTJs. I have a natural aversion to crowds, so I need both courage to make a stand (probably slightly harder for me than INTJs, because I don't like upsetting people), as well as humility to join the crowd (probably easier for me because I want people to be happy, even though I don't like crowds/groups).

    However, I think an INFJ like myself would typically probably 'get away' with this behaviour a bit more; in that when I do engage with people I still do so usually in quite a warm and sympathetic way (even when they are disturbing me) due to my Fe. Whereas with an INTJ, it might be a little more obvious that they think you are wasting their time, which doesn't go down so well (also, because it comes across as having a 'superior' attitude, whether it is the case or not).

    In terms of 'correct perspective', I don't view negatively the people who do socialise at work, as long as this isn't excessive. Because we spend more hours at our jobs than we probably spend anywhere else, at least during waking hours. So, I understand why many people stay or leave jobs due to the good or poor social aspects of their work. I think the biggest problem in society is actually loneliness, so I'm not going to judge people if they get some answer to their loneliness at work, and indeed I think it is a legitimate source for meeting this need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice Amarok View Post
    [B][FONT=Century Gothic]Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?
    To answer the OP's post directly then, from an outsider perspective. I would say that considering the amount of time that INTJs tend to spend at work, and the relatively little time they have left to socialise elsewhere, there probably IS a negative correlation between the INTJ independence/focus/work ethic and their social life/status...
    Last edited by Clumsy; 03-18-2017 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice Amarok View Post
    Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?

    This one time when my teacher was speaking towards the entirety of the class about being a follower such as following the trends or popular gimmicks in the internet were getting students in trouble. There's also the whole social media fiasco where student do this and student do that, pretty much I've come across that there's nothing i could relate to merely due to my nonintervention with people.

    In essence, where other people would enter an environment and think "Who should i get along with?" while the INTJ would think "Which people do i go to, to finish stuff the fastest?" or just a 'time to work' attitude?
    Wow. It never even occurred to me until reading this post that work could be for socializing. I go to work to get stuff done, to organize the company better and find ways to be more efficient. That's actually one of my jobs. The other person who I come into contact with in the office has mentioned a few times that he likes working with me because he can just do his thing and not worry about me not doing work or needing his help. Even when I'm doing the part of my job that involves interacting with people, I never think of it as a social or connecting thing.

    lol now I'm wondering if I've ever lost out on something because I'm not socially oriented.

    PS, I know I'm not an INTJ, but I am currently developing my Te and you guys make much more sense to me than many other types (at least the way you explain things) which is why I lurk here. I hope it doesn't bother anyone.
    EyesOpen and Dare thanked this post.

  7. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Solstice Amarok View Post
    Would you suppose that the INTJ's need for independence overrides their need for unity could be affecting our social status/life?

    This one time when my teacher was speaking towards the entirety of the class about being a follower such as following the trends or popular gimmicks in the internet were getting students in trouble. There's also the whole social media fiasco where student do this and student do that, pretty much I've come across that there's nothing i could relate to merely due to my nonintervention with people.

    In essence, where other people would enter an environment and think "Who should i get along with?" while the INTJ would think "Which people do i go to, to finish stuff the fastest?" or just a 'time to work' attitude?
    The key is finished your work ahead of time; I utilize [work] as an opportunistic ("social-exercise") because that's what it is. [Forced human contact]. It seems you are just talking about (Te) and (Fe).

    But, (Te) works sufficiently well on people; otherwise that is (Ti). (Fe) works with; (Te) works on. I enjoy working on folks; even at work. So, ignoring everyone isn't my cup of tea. They come to me for instruction; I will give it. It is nice stress-relief.
    Last edited by Catwalk; 03-18-2017 at 08:12 PM.
    Clumsy and stathamspeacoat thanked this post.

  8. #8
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Clumsy View Post
    The things I love about INTJs are also the same things I hate, haha

    All strengths can also be weaknesses. It's great that INTJs don't 'just' follow the crowd. But truly great leaders must not only have the courage to stand out from the crowd to do the right thing, but also the humility to do the right thing even if it means the crowd is doing it already and following someone else. Standing out from the crowd just for the sake of not joining in, is just dumb.
    I definitely agree with this. It's good to chart one's own path...but teamwork is a really important part of life that can really make things easier for all parties (you included).
    Clumsy thanked this post.

  9. #9

    we love unity
    that is our ultimate goal
    Clumsy thanked this post.

  10. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinniebob View Post
    we love unity
    that is our ultimate goal
    Blank+_1ec5db2bc53115d645aa07270d22bf8a.jpg
    EyesOpen and Vinniebob thanked this post.


     
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