[INTJ] What do you think of witchcraft? - Page 4

What do you think of witchcraft?

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This is a discussion on What do you think of witchcraft? within the INTJ Forum - The Scientists forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Stay away from witchcraft there is always a catch to it. I use to be a happy ESFP but then ...

  1. #31
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Stay away from witchcraft there is always a catch to it. I use to be a happy ESFP but then I found a book of shadows and casted a spell to become more strategic. It worked but I was cursed to spend the rest of my days as an INTJ.




  2. #32

    I saw a news story mentioning a group of "witches" convened at night and tried to cast a spell on Donald Trump.

    Needless to say it was one of those hard laughs where you can't breathe and feel like you may have seriously pulled a muscle in your neck.

  3. #33

    Witchcraft - No.

    Alchemy - who knows if I wouldn't be interested in alchemy if I lived in middle ages ? Some chemical reactions are very astonishing... so I guess it's a matter of curiosity. Actually, too bad nowadays everything you meet in everyday life is intimately explained, so I can't feed with it my dopaminergic system seeking for the answers.

    But alchemy in modern days? Historical view on it might be interesting, however most people dealing with it today are interested in something else - like seeking for some 'mystical excitement' , or impressing their environment with something unusual or whatever...


    Quote Originally Posted by rezo View Post
    Stay away from witchcraft there is always a catch to it. I use to be a happy ESFP but then I found a book of shadows and casted a spell to become more strategic. It worked but I was cursed to spend the rest of my days as an INTJ.
    Maybe now you need some brain-damaging "alchemy" to reverse back ?
    rezo and brightflashes thanked this post.

  4. #34
    Unknown

    Witchcraft: I don't know. There's always a sinister undercurrent associated to it. Not necessarily because it's linked to the paranormal, Satanism, or the shadowy shamanism of pre-Christian beliefs. It's because it connotes the willingness to bend natural law and order to the whims and passions of (wo)man. It freaks people out that someone would covet that kind of power to the effect of studying it and practicing it. It betrays a kind of enviousness that undergirds superstitious attitudes, and exists beneath the rational mind and morality.

    Officially, I've got no problem with it. People have been chanting, cursing, communing with spirits for years. It has done nothing to stop the fall of empires, prevent famine, prevent natural disasters or stave off death. At most, diviners can "predict" earthquakes and talk of political unrest and societal upheavals making an affect on the mortals in mundane astrology, something that would've been known by looking at a history book for 5 minutes. Restricted to intrapersonal understanding and perspective, I think it's fine. Beyond that, things get shaky. 'Fate' is constantly being interrupted by the wills, wishes and whims of other diviners, soothsayers, demons, spirits and everyone else gets caught in the middle. It creates such a impenetrable web of chaos, you don't know which spell begot what, whose prayers blessed or cursed whom. And good luck trying to verify everything.

    Alchemy: Pardon if this is blunt, but alchemy is like a lower level form of chemistry. It's relegated to an ossified category of pseudo-science reserved for once touted theories, practices and disciplines that have seen been displaced by better, more verifiable theories and practices. It reflects the ignorance and limitations of society's capacity to gather information at the time. We can observe things at the microscopic level and be able to understand more about the chemical reactions between different substances with better technology and better methods.
    Last edited by Praesepe; 03-06-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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  5. #35

    Quote Originally Posted by Praesepe View Post
    It's because it connotes the willingness to bend natural law and order to the whims and passions of (wo)man.
    for the sake of my friend, i'll just say that i think she would see this as a gross misrepresentation. her presentation and practice were not about bending anything. they were about working within the given parameters, not trying to game them or subvert them.

    i said that she provided what was basically a readme file to go with her spell, and it was pretty thick with that clarification. in that sense, i don't think her form of wicca was all that different from alchemy, really. same idea of 'these things might not be commonly known, but under the terms of this structure they are givens.' and the same kind of thing about pushing the boundaries of those 'laws' too hard or doing it for invalid or selfish reasons.

  6. #36
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by lilysocks View Post
    for the sake of my friend, i'll just say that i think she would see this as a gross misrepresentation. her presentation and practice were not about bending anything. they were about working within the given parameters, not trying to game them or subvert them.
    That's not my view or what I meant exactly, but thanks for the clarification all the same. Yeah, maybe this society's way of quantifying and separating everything is just a form bending nature to human will. *shrug*
    lilysocks thanked this post.

  7. #37

    The problem is not the witchcraft or alchemy itself, but rather how flexible and undefined the rules are concerning magic and items within their world (why isn't the time-turner used to kill Voldemort?), and how everything can be hand-waved away with a wave of the wand.

    If there are clearly-defined rules and there is a certain chain of logic to the techniques behind the magic, I can accept the 'logic' behind it, like FullMetal Alchemist and The Irregular at Magic High School, the former has the law of equivalent exchange and the latter uses magic like they would technology and even goes for a hybrid of magi-tech at times.

    Any attempts to explain magic away as 'it's magic, just deal with it' in fictional stories are rarely worth my time, and real magic, even less so.

  8. #38
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Witchcraft and alchemy both use magical thinking, something humans are extremely prone to. Finding connections and making conclusions are important to our survival. Magical thinking takes that a step further. It assumes that a symbol of something has the same power as the thing itself.

    How humans survive:
    I eat some purple berries.
    They make me very sick.
    I avoid purple berries. They are bad.

    How humans have magical thinking:
    Purple berries made me sick.
    Purple is a symbol for bad things.
    I take a picture (a symbol) of my enemy and put a purple cloth over it to hurt them.

    This stuff can have a powerful affect on people's minds. Belief that you have been cursed can actually make you sick. But it is the belief that is doing it, not the curse.

    Symbols are powerful and can hugely influence us. Can they turn lead into gold, or a man into a pig? Of course not.
    Alles_Paletti and Dabbling thanked this post.

  9. #39

    No, witchcraft is not the same as alchemy. Alchemy is chemistry's predecessor that involves some magical thinking. Funny enough, the best way to describe it would be like transfiguration in the Harry Potter world.

    No, I don't practice alchemy. There are still active alchemists today, though. Funded ones and not just people taking the piss.

    Yes, I have practiced a type of witchery before. I grew up in the deep south. There's a Gullah-based voodoo/Baptist Christian/African slave thing that old women used to practice when I was little. They go to church every Sunday, Wednesday and first Saturdays, but will dig up grave dirt and hair to hex someone or make them fall in love on their days off. It's normal - or it used to be normal - to go to a 'root worker' if you needed help.

    That hypocrisy was one of the reasons why I hated going to church as a kid. Then again, I tried to be an atheist and found it boring.

    When I was young my grandma used to scold me about leaving my hair or nails anywhere for fear that the 'crows' will get me. I used to think she was nuts, but it wasn't until years later, after I ran into a root person at a movie theater as an adult - when she told me she used to be a practitioner. Which made sense because root workers are usually Gullah descendants, which is what my family is.

    You would think that this would be taboo in the bible belt, but it really wasn't. As long as you still went to church, in some communities, you were still good Christian. If the lord didn't want you to use a root person, he wouldn't have made one available to you. But if a pagan wanted to erect a store downtown, all hell would break loose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drecon View Post
    I think it's possibe that an INTJ can believe in witchcraft. The INTJ in question would have to have reasons to believe that it gives tangible results towards something bigger. I have not come across a version of it that would easily give that impression, but I suppose it's possible. (I doubt you'd find that type of INTJ on the internet though)
    Here I am.

    Anyway, I've delved in 'magical' work. There were lots of little Wiccans that popped up after The Craft was released. It's just thought manipulation. You use deities, inanimate objects or even nature as a reference point for your 'power'. The rest is just changing your way of thinking to bring your desired outcome to fruition.

    There are a lot of pan-pagan belief systems that really do believe in the omniscient power of deities and others who don't believe in gods but innate collective consciousness and still others who think it's all psychological. At the end of the day, they're just stories and the rituals and ceremonies are just reference points.
    Last edited by ponpiri; 05-13-2017 at 07:53 AM.
    lilysocks and Drecon thanked this post.

  10. #40

    Quote Originally Posted by Amatsukaze View Post
    The problem is not the witchcraft or alchemy itself, but rather how flexible and undefined the rules are concerning magic and items within their world (why isn't the time-turner used to kill Voldemort?), and how everything can be hand-waved away with a wave of the wand.

    If there are clearly-defined rules and there is a certain chain of logic to the techniques behind the magic, I can accept the 'logic' behind it, like FullMetal Alchemist and The Irregular at Magic High School, the former has the law of equivalent exchange and the latter uses magic like they would technology and even goes for a hybrid of magi-tech at times.

    Any attempts to explain magic away as 'it's magic, just deal with it' in fictional stories are rarely worth my time, and real magic, even less so.
    Read some fantasy by Brandon Sanderson. Anything in his Cosmere universe. All his magic systems have rules like that. It makes it his books more exciting, because you have a clear idea of what the magic can and cannot do. There're no ex machinas. He's also an incredible author in general.
    Amatsukaze thanked this post.


     
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