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INFP and ENTJ: Relationship Match?

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This is a discussion on INFP and ENTJ: Relationship Match? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; One of my best friends is an ENTJ. We surprisingly see eye to eye on a lot of subjects, and ...

  1. #11
    INFP - The Idealists

    One of my best friends is an ENTJ. We surprisingly see eye to eye on a lot of subjects, and I really do appreciate him as a person. And ENTJ romantically? I can't see that working out. I just cant see emotional support being there with an ENTJ
    arc72, refugee and thor odinson thanked this post.

  2. #12
    INFP - The Idealists

    Well I disagree, but I only had 1 experience with 1 female ENTJ. I just graduated from college and worked in advertising. She was one of the seniors there but was only a year older. We became great friends outside the company. She brought the energy out of me. We told each other riddles to keep conversations going, which were really funny and goofy. It's rare that I enjoy any conversation. She opened up to me on her feelings (which she told me why she suppressed them). Taught me that criticism is good for character. She convinced me to wake up early to exercise with her (hours before work started!). Taught me life goal settings. Convinced me why it is important to be positive around others.

    At that time I did not want to date her because I wanted to be with someone that is a traditional stereotypical feely female (ironically, I got an ESFJ this year and that made me want to revert to someone a tad colder). Now that I think of it, as I matured a little bit (by 3 years), I should have pursued our relationship.

    Anyways, other INFPs in other forums have expressed many positive reviews about their relationship with ENTJs. I've seen them before on the internet and there were man. One example: An ENTJ And A INFP--Good Match Or No?

    This is how I believe ENTJ-INFP relationships will work:

    1. INFP must have some ambition in life (ENTJs biggest pet peeve: people without passion)
    2. INFP must not be lazy (ENTJs are energetic!)
    3. ENTJ must be a positive person (Hey, this ENTJ girl told me to be a positive person)
    4. ENTJ must respect people's feelings (My dad's ENTJ, he treats feelings like an atheist believes in God. Except anger, he's good at expressing that very loudly)
    5. INFP and ENTJ understand each other's and their own shortcomings in personality and accept each other and themselves (well, this is decent advice for every couple but it can't be stated enough)
    6. INFP is very in tune with his/her Ne function. Same as ENTJ is very in tune with her Ni function. That way the Fi-Te functions don't get overwhelmed easily.

    If you're INFP, say good bye to daytime naps. Look up some riddles too and expand your Ne function. If you're ENTJ, prepare to get smothered.

    This is all theory. I have not seen an ENTJ-INFP relationship in real life. I only 2 ENTJ's. But, from what I've heard from other forums and recalling my past ENTJ co-worker, I strongly believe that the ENTJ-INFP relationship has one of highest potentials for great marriages.
    arc72, refugee, thor odinson and 1 others thanked this post.

  3. #13
    INFP - The Idealists

    Id personally be strongly against such a pairing. I feel we're to far apart to meet each other halfway.

    People who are closer on the scale to each other can benefit, because their differences can not only compliment each other, but it can make the relationship more interesting and it would be easier to make compromises when the compromises aren't so big in the first place.

    Yeah any two individuals could theoretically make it work but that doesn't mean the probabilities of success are the same for every combination.

    Id personally put this one at the lower end of the scale.

  4. #14
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    NFs who marry NFs are like two lids trying to make soup. Or, if you prefer, two pots (and no lid). My parents are both NFs (as are all their kids, most of us Ps) and we are happy, but our family has little/no tactical knowledge to pull us through life. We sort of float along, waiting for something to happen to us.

    Fortunately, something did happen for a lot of us--we married NTs. Best thing that's ever happened to us, actually. We help them get in touch with their feelings (which do exist) and they help us make the most of our life potential.

    Otherwise, I grew up in La-La land.

    Conclusion: Keirsey was onto something. (The fact that his conclusion was based on empirical evidence, btw, should tell you something.)

    P.S. Most of my relations with my other NF siblings go like this: we gush and feel together until we are both absolutely exhausted and nothing is accomplished. After twenty years of this, I was SO HAPPY to marry my INTJ husband.

    P.S.S. My INFP brother married an ENTJ girl and they seem pretty happy.
    thor odinson, Bago, Le Beau Coeur and 3 others thanked this post.

  5. #15
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    I think that it would very difficult to be honest. My father is an ENTJ (i'm an ENFP) and i know a few ENTJ's, so I know what they can be like, both healthy and unhealthy.

    They place a high importance on logic as a way to make decisions and feelings will almost always take a backseat. They will make emotional decisions for someone they really care about, but it can be difficult for them. For example, my father got into a fight with my mother's sister-in-law a while ago. I won't go into it, but it was a very messy ordeal for everyone involved. He would refuse to go to family events where she would be going (he wouldn't stop us, but would not go himself), and really just hated her generally. It took about 8 years after the fight for him to start returning to family events (by my mother's plea), and whenever he is around her he is visibly agitated. It is very tense when he is around her, and he does NOT put on a mask to make it less awkward at all.

    Now this is one example of how an ENTJ in my life made an emotional decision over logic. He did it for my mother. But even in doing so, it is still really tense and uncomfortable in those situations. This might be a problem area for an INFP, because you guys are Fi-doms, you absorb all of that tension and frustration in emotional disputes and an ENTJ most likely won't sugarcoat anything for you.

    I do think they are great people though. My dad went through a metamorphosis in the last 3-4 years after listening to self-help tapes. He made big improvements in some negative parts of his personality, and really matured emotionally. But even as a matured ENTJ, emotions are still not his strong suit (and I don't think they ever will be). As an INFP i would imagine this being very hard. They are intensely loving people and will give you the world in terms of their efforts and affection. I respect how loyal ENTJ's are, they are like your personal warrior. But in terms of servicing your emotional needs, they tend to struggle and want to give you a logical 'solution' to every problem (which is not what you always need). They get frustrated with just letting you 'feel' without solving the problem head-on. This has it's benefits, but I think that it would just make an INFP feel misunderstood even further.

    hope this helps!
    IcarusDreams, thor odinson and kaleidoscope thanked this post.

  6. #16
    INFP - The Idealists

    I haven't had any experiences with ENTJs but I dated an INTJ for a little while and it drove me crazy how he disregarded my feelings constantly and never showed any emotions himself. I didn't like not knowing what he was feeling and it felt like I was dating a brick wall sometimes. He would also say things that I found to be pretty insensitive and hurt my feelings. He's a great friend but I don't think I'd date another NT, especially an extrovert because I'd feel as if my personal space was being invaded on top of all that. I also had an ESTJ friend who was very controlling and manipulative, we no longer speak to one another. I know that she was just a very unhealthy person but even when she had her good days it didn't work out very well. Needless to say, I think I am meant to be with another feeler. I guess I wouldn't close off the possibility of being with a thinker but I think it would be a LOT of work. I'm happy with my F. ^_^
    IcarusDreams and thor odinson thanked this post.

  7. #17
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by dawilliams View Post
    NFs who marry NFs are like two lids trying to make soup. Or, if you prefer, two pots (and no lid). My parents are both NFs (as are all their kids, most of us Ps) and we are happy, but our family has little/no tactical knowledge to pull us through life. We sort of float along, waiting for something to happen to us.

    Fortunately, something did happen for a lot of us--we married NTs. Best thing that's ever happened to us, actually. We help them get in touch with their feelings (which do exist) and they help us make the most of our life potential.

    Otherwise, I grew up in La-La land.

    Conclusion: Keirsey was onto something. (The fact that his conclusion was based on empirical evidence, btw, should tell you something.)

    P.S. Most of my relations with my other NF siblings go like this: we gush and feel together until we are both absolutely exhausted and nothing is accomplished. After twenty years of this, I was SO HAPPY to marry my INTJ husband.

    P.S.S. My INFP brother married an ENTJ girl and they seem pretty happy.
    I am happy that you are happy with your NT husband-wonderful! However, what you call rather pejoratively "lala land" is a wonderful place, and that you don't prefer it at all based on personal experience doesn't mean that NTs must be "ideal" for NFs.

    I love Mr. Keirsey's conclusions, but that's one idea that didn't convince me as much, though it MUST be said that he does state that other relationships can and do work, and even mentions where NT-NF could go awry-which isn't surprising.

    IMHO, it's just hard to strictly use personology studies to figure out which type/temperament/enneagram/et. al. is "better" for you, though knowledge about how other people operate can never be a bad thing. I've become used to living with myself for so long, that I don't need an NT to be "completed" or "balanced", quite honestly. There must be wonderful NT-NT couples as well, happy, and with no need for each other to supply any "F" to each other. While I would never say "NFs are only right for NFs" (even though deep down that is where "the connection" lies for me almost all the time), I am 100% positive that NFs are not always "bad", can be "grounded", won't always be "in the clouds" (I love NFs too much to accuse them of not being to lead practical lives by default), so two mature NFs can and (actually more often than not) will work, granted two mature and compatible individuals-on the same token, and regardless Mr. Keirsey's research, I can't see two immature ENTJ-INFP together working out.

    Some NFs are highly sensitive persons as well (used in the positive sense, not in the way society uses the word "sensitive"-as in taking criticism too personally), and those needs and differences are to be respected-which any great NT can do, but am sure not all will.

    This is not a shot against ENTJs, however, as they can also be wonderful individuals-just a warning that, while some theories recommend the ENTJ-INFP pairing (and NT-NF), it is not to be adhered to blindly or just due to the initial butterflies of falling in love with someone so fascinating, yet so different, that feels "so complementary" but may not work in the long run if not a really good match on many other levels.
    thor odinson thanked this post.

  8. #18
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusDreams View Post
    I am happy that you are happy with your NT husband-wonderful! However, what you call rather pejoratively "lala land" is a wonderful place, and that you don't prefer it at all based on personal experience doesn't mean that NTs must be "ideal" for NFs.

    I love Mr. Keirsey's conclusions, but that's one idea that didn't convince me as much, though it MUST be said that he does state that other relationships can and do work, and even mentions where NT-NF could go awry-which isn't surprising.

    IMHO, it's just hard to strictly use personology studies to figure out which type/temperament/enneagram/et. al. is "better" for you, though knowledge about how other people operate can never be a bad thing. I've become used to living with myself for so long, that I don't need an NT to be "completed" or "balanced", quite honestly. There must be wonderful NT-NT couples as well, happy, and with no need for each other to supply any "F" to each other. While I would never say "NFs are only right for NFs" (even though deep down that is where "the connection" lies for me almost all the time), I am 100% positive that NFs are not always "bad", can be "grounded", won't always be "in the clouds" (I love NFs too much to accuse them of not being to lead practical lives by default), so two mature NFs can and (actually more often than not) will work, granted two mature and compatible individuals-on the same token, and regardless Mr. Keirsey's research, I can't see two immature ENTJ-INFP together working out.

    Some NFs are highly sensitive persons as well (used in the positive sense, not in the way society uses the word "sensitive"-as in taking criticism too personally), and those needs and differences are to be respected-which any great NT can do, but am sure not all will.

    This is not a shot against ENTJs, however, as they can also be wonderful individuals-just a warning that, while some theories recommend the ENTJ-INFP pairing (and NT-NF), it is not to be adhered to blindly or just due to the initial butterflies of falling in love with someone so fascinating, yet so different, that feels "so complementary" but may not work in the long run if not a really good match on many other levels.
    You are absolutely right, and I was probably a little callous in my diss of NF on NF love. I realize Lala-land is a wonderful place--I spend a lot of time there myself;-) --but it is also a bubble and staying in there too long disconnects me from the broader world of people. At least, that is what it felt like to grow up in an exclusively NF family.

    I love my NF family. We are very sensitive and loving toward one another. I am sure most NF on NF relationship "work out" in the long run as we are naturally cooperative and breaking up is traumatic for us. But is staying together the only measurement of a successful relationship?

    And of course, not all NF on NF love is going to end up floating away into the clouds. Maturity will do a great deal to diminish the weaknesses of any relationship--and yes, you're right again--immaturity will break even the most compatible match.

    But as for the NF and NT match which Keirsey recommends, that is based on empirical evidence. He found that the marital pairings between NF and NT tend to be more successful than any other match except SP and SJ (the other compatibility). I haven't seen his raw evidence, but he is INTP which means that he would be really careful to verify what he says before saying it.

    Here is what he says on the topic in his book, PUMII: "By far the most frequent mating appears to be between SP Artisans and SJ Guardians...

    The mating pattern for NT Rationals and NF Idealists is similar, although not quite so clear-cut, owing to the huge numbers of Artisans and Guardians in the population. Rationals and Idealists attract each other most frequently--if given the chance to meet...And yet, despite the difficulty Rationals and Idealists have in finding each other, the frequency of NT-NF marriages is remarkable, and even more so is the incident of NT-NF second marriages, after a failed first try with an SP or an SJ (p. 210)."

    Anyway, I have an ENTJ son and I can assure anyone in doubt--they do have feelings, and those feelings run very deep!
    Le Beau Coeur, CGonerko and Windblownhair thanked this post.

  9. #19
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by dawilliams View Post
    You are absolutely right, and I was probably a little callous in my diss of NF on NF love. I realize Lala-land is a wonderful place--I spend a lot of time there myself;-) --but it is also a bubble and staying in there too long disconnects me from the broader world of people. At least, that is what it felt like to grow up in an exclusively NF family.

    I love my NF family. We are very sensitive and loving toward one another. I am sure most NF on NF relationship "work out" in the long run as we are naturally cooperative and breaking up is traumatic for us. But is staying together the only measurement of a successful relationship?

    And of course, not all NF on NF love is going to end up floating away into the clouds. Maturity will do a great deal to diminish the weaknesses of any relationship--and yes, you're right again--immaturity will break even the most compatible match.

    But as for the NF and NT match which Keirsey recommends, that is based on empirical evidence. He found that the marital pairings between NF and NT tend to be more successful than any other match except SP and SJ (the other compatibility). I haven't seen his raw evidence, but he is INTP which means that he would be really careful to verify what he says before saying it.

    Here is what he says on the topic in his book, PUMII: "By far the most frequent mating appears to be between SP Artisans and SJ Guardians...

    The mating pattern for NT Rationals and NF Idealists is similar, although not quite so clear-cut, owing to the huge numbers of Artisans and Guardians in the population. Rationals and Idealists attract each other most frequently--if given the chance to meet...And yet, despite the difficulty Rationals and Idealists have in finding each other, the frequency of NT-NF marriages is remarkable, and even more so is the incident of NT-NF second marriages, after a failed first try with an SP or an SJ (p. 210)."

    Anyway, I have an ENTJ son and I can assure anyone in doubt--they do have feelings, and those feelings run very deep!
    Keirsey's observations about NFs are mostly spot on (love it)-however, my own reality questions his "empirical" research about type-matching (which is at best a loose guide, IM strong O), based on my values and personal experience. For better or worse, I am not attracted to NT preferences, don't feel they "complement me" (I don't even believe people should get together to "complement" each other, but that's another subject), and in fact, would feel that most NTs won't be attracted to me in any way or fashion, because I won't hide who I am nor my feelings, especially since I am a musician and sensitive individual. It would probably take a musician NT with an extremely open mind to accept me for who I am, and not who I should be in her head (rest assured, I never would want other types to "be like NFs", but it is often other people who want me to be "like them"-I always respect individual's right to be themselves.)

    Whereas with an NF, the connection is so much natural (in my case) we don't even need to like and enjoy the same things, though there should probably be some sort of common ground somewhere.

    Note that I am a strong proponent of "all mature types can match well", so please don't take my words to mean that I am positive NTs are "bad" for NFs. My personal experience is, however, that I do not gravitate towards them as some other NFs do.

    NTs have feelings, as every human being does-it's just so much different, as they may have trouble dealing with them.

    Best of luck with your family, regardless type. :)

  10. #20
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by IcarusDreams View Post
    in fact, would feel that most NTs won't be attracted to me in any way or fashion, because I won't hide who I am nor my feelings, especially since I am a musician and sensitive individual.
    On the contrary, I think NTs would love this about you. All the NTs I know want a mate who will challenge them, who has a strong enough sense of self not to get intimidated by them, who can share the F side of the equation without getting flustered or undone by their explorative logic.

    When people get intimidated by them, I think NTs feel just a bit more alone in the universe, a bit more misunderstood.
    Last edited by dawilliams; 09-18-2013 at 12:39 AM.
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