[goodgracesbadinfluence]

Which is okay, I mean, I understand. Sometimes it's nice to offload to another because we spend such a large amount of time being completely misunderstood. I vent a lot myself, but in the end although I feel better for doing so, only I can pull myself out of that funk. Plus, I have amazing peaks, as well. It's cyclic. There may be more to this than I can see - after all, I am only able to interpret things from your point of view. However for some reason or another, be it immaturity or just his interpretation of the way you present yourself as a person, it sounds like either he is not fully able to comprehend the way these things affect you, or doesn't care which I doubt. This likely also runs both ways, but if he won't open up to you, there's not much that can be done there.

The best result would be if you could somehow cut through all the crap and get to the core of the issue. You have made clear what is hurtful to you, and hopefully you have done so in a more passive, "this makes me feel like this" instead of the more accusatory "you are making me feel this way". If there is any way for him to be open about the reason he is behaving like this, even if only in terms you cannot fully understand, he must feel able to express this. I was not there to experience the end of your relationship, nor do I know him as an individual and so cannot comment on why he may be choosing to maintain his defenses. Sometimes you have to give a little first in order to reassure another they are safe to do the same, but there must also be a point where you cut your losses and run.

Whatever the situation may be, to recommend anything more than friendship at this point seems ridiculous. I mean, if the two of you were in a relationship for that long and still know so little of each other, then what does that say? Though I may just be being naïve and/or presumptuous at this point.

He says he doesn't understand me and the way I operate is completely foreign to him. He can generally read people easily after a few meetings or so. This was not the case with me and he has said before that he thought something would make me react one way but I'd end up reacting the opposite. Sometimes he says it feels like he's walking on eggshells when he is around me, and I'm not sure if he still feels that way or not. I suppose I should ask. I know he doesn't understand how fully things affect me. I don't think he understands how deep I actually feel things, because he says I'm really distant emotionally and I think I've opened up sufficiently but to him I'm only scratching the surface.

Perhaps I should work on wording my sentences more passively, but this is not natural to me. He is a very defensive person (even when I'm not being accusatory), and when he goes on the defensive I follow suit. It's hard for me to remember to take a step back when he's behaving that way.

I don't think we know each other as well as we should, but perhaps I think he's deeper than he is. He says I know him better than anyone else does, and he would know best. I wish he understood me better, but a lot of people don't understand me so I can't really fault him for that.

[goodgracesbadinfluence]

I will use a direct style to respond to you, okay? I used to work in IT, and I found this exact direct point by point sometimes work well with a lot of NTs ! (I also checked, and found that, an article I linked here also confirms this.)

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What am I doing wrong ?
A: You are not doing anything "wrong" exactly. You are being you. He is being him. Both of you are not "wrong". You guys just maybe need to adjust the timing of what you say with each other and when. Some people class this as being "effective at communication". I guess it is somewhat subjective.

Am I wrong?
A: No. How can you be "wrong" for being yourself ??? However, if you want me to be "fair-minded" and judge each action from a 3rd party's viewpoint, then yes, I can use social rules of where one of you pushed the other person far beyond what it is normally acceptable in the other person's eyes, but since you wrote this post for help, I am not going to use that method. You just got to ask yourself some deep questions like "Do I want this person in my life. If I do, can I take accept how he is, and adjust a little bit on the timing to how I am?" -- This is a conscious decision from you.

And what can I do to fix it?
A: Acknowledge the differences between you and him, and that both of you need filters when interacting with each other. That is all.

Thank you for taking the time to go into extreme detail. I appreciate that. I will probably also give reasonably lengthy responses as well.

Anyhow, you are only 20 and 19, so the fact that you already went into this kind of deep analysis stand you on good stead. Cos you seem to be able to tell me when you are angry and what caused you to be angry. I guess you just need to know "why" you are angry or annoyed or upset. Then doing this, allows you to understand yourself so much better, and that you guys can indeed grow into happier individuals as a whole. It is a good thing to be THAT self aware. I'm 35, and it has taken me this long to understand myself on what I am about to tell you.

I suppose I expect him to be as self-aware as I am, which he isn't. And I don't think most people our age are. I need to know "why" for everything, especially when it pertains to how I interact with the world. He is the opposite. He never thinks about why and just accepts most things as they are. This includes his emotions and mine, to a certain extent. When I don't know why something happens that is important, it puts me in a state of disequilibrium that I don't think he (or anyone else) understands.

Based on the above, I read it as that you are "unhealthy" (depressed or stressed). You too should be P orientated as is he.

I am overall P-oriented. I lead a very laid-back lifestyle. I am a huge procrastinator. But to a certain point, I need definite answers. I need to know what's going on when it affects me.

Your INTP shadow self is a negative ESFJ.
The INFP shadow self is also ESTJ.

He sounds more INFP as compared his shadow based on what you wrote, as he is creating music, and seems to exhibit his P side more often than yourself.

What do you mean "as compared his shadow"? And as opposed to mine? I don't quite get what you are saying here.

Maybe you can help the situation if you draw a boundary as well to lock down the answer that you need. Even if you cannot get the exact information?

"I can be here between 1700-1715, and if I do not see you then I will go home, okay ?"

Well... here's where desire comes into play. I want to see him. I enjoy spending time with him and hanging out with him. I have no real desire to draw a boundary unless it is incredibly inconvenient. But picking him up from our college would take like twenty minutes round trip and it barely makes a notch in my gas gauge. There's no real reason for me to not get him. It would've been easier if I could get him when I was driving past the school on my way home, but it wasn't necessary and I wasn't even pestering him to be ready. I was merely asking. And I don't think he understands that sometimes I really am just asking a question and I'm not trying to rush him.

Do you realise that he keeps verbalising "reasons", and not make decisions ?

You can always ask him to respond to you more directly if you ask clarifying sentences:
Q: "Please confirm if you are going to come round, or not. I understand it if you changed your mind."

Maybe the "I ask, you confirm" is a better way to communicate between you two?
If he behaves in a more T way. You got to give back some kind of F communication feedback too.

Him: "I am coming."
You: (With affection) "Thank you for letting me know. I appreciate this direct answer."

It is a what someone call an "open and close" loop in communication.
You say something. He say something. You ask. He answered. etc etc.
He gives you T answers. You affirm him with F emotive adjectives.

I'm not sure if he verbalises reasons or not. I also have trouble being really affectionate with stuff I think is simple like that. Like I can say, "Thanks, I appreciate this" but for all I know my tone is completely devoid of emotion.

Again, he is hesitant cos I bet he changed he changed his mind because he sense the negativity, and then he went into a logic loop based on the emotional vibes he got from you, and your relationship in general. He also uses an element of the past history too to confirm his decision.

He often puts off answering me or doing things or something because he is afraid they will upset me, either at him or in general. Sometimes he doesn't realise that putting them off is worse. He also sometimes thinks I am going to treat him the same way I did a year or two ago, and that isn't the case usually since we're young and still changing. One time, ages ago, he told me he was afraid to call me and tell me he needed to pick me up at a friend's house because apparently I got really pissed at him for doing something similar... but I have no memory of that. And it was probably something where he was like, "I need you to do blah blah blah" instead of, "Is it okay if you can blah blah blah." I don't do well being told what I "need" to do. I know it may sound rather trivial but it really rubs me the wrong way.

Based on the above, you are stressed and upset because it is of this lack of exact decision making, and without being objective from his side.

Yes. Exactly. I generally don't get upset because I can't see him. What upsets me is that he tells me he will do something and then he doesn't do it. I don't understand what is so difficult about it. And he is SUCH a subjective person. It drives me insane.

You cannot expect* him change himself into an exact copy of an INTP, of which he is not. So, instead of changing the situation, and the other person, the best you can do also is to add more "balancing" elements into your own immediate life too, and reduce the elements which causes you anxiety.


Reduce the number of issues and elements in your life. Ask less questions.
"Few questions" => Simplicity in one's life. We all need this.
Less info => less ambiguities => less possibilities => focused decision making

I have experienced this before with other people in my life. In order to keep my personality and sanity, I have to do something to counteract that. Slowly if the other person wants to stay in your life, you find a middle-ground somehow. Out of love and desire to want to stay together in the relationship!

Ask fewer questions about what, exactly? If there is less information, there are more ambiguities, at least in my INTP mind.

I am not sure if he has really found a middle ground with me. That's something I cannot ever gauge in people and it's something I will have to actually literally sit down with him and ask about. I don't know what changes he has made in order to adapt to how I am. Perhaps right now since we are in a committed relationship he won't, and I can't say I blame him.

He is not able to "read" you basically. I think both of you is currently seeing each other from your own mbti goggles on. This is certainly okay, acceptable and definitely natural. Cos at 19-20, you are developing your own mbti functions and is being self aware of who you are and what your "personality" is like.

Even though you tell him how you are upset and be direct and be logical. He won't understand the reasons behind your words either. Maybe if you approached this from a "manners and ettiquette" thing. Like, it is good ettiquette that if he wants to come on over then he does not ask you to wait around. Cos it was HIS desire to want to do this.

How would I do that, exactly? Like what would I say? The direct and logical thing is what's natural to me. I always go, "This action yielded this result." Like a cause and effect thing.

He is a pleaser, so if you get upset by his not being exact, then he will be upset. Yet, he does not know that you are upset cos it was his indecisiveness that upsets you. If he knows it, he would have done it and not circle in his mind like he does with his feelings. He is not an INTP. Even though you kind of place expectation of from what you say to him as a way to make him presume that he should.

Maybe if you told him the cause and effect between the two of you, THEN he could fix this. He may not be exposed to mbti, or to understand you and can read you naturally like he reads himself.

Always remember that he is not doing this deliberately to hurt you... You must remember that at 20, 19, both of you are just finding your own self awareness, and of your own personalities. This is also in a close relationship kind of context, so everything is highlighted so much more. I wonder if either of you wanted partners to be exactly like yourselves ???

He hates it when he upsets me and then always turns around and calls himself worthless for it. He recently apologised to me and said he was sorry for not being good enough for me.

He is exposed somewhat to MBTI. He isn't really super into it, but he knows a little bit about INTPs, INFPs, ENTJs and ENTPs. More specifically INTPs, because he knows me and a lot of my characteristics are textbook INTP traits.

I know he isn't deliberately doing this to hurt me. Intellectually anyway. But when I am extremely upset like that, I lose the ability to think rationally and I often forget. When I get over being that upset, I find myself extremely drained emotionally... like mentally tired, almost. I don't do well with extreme emotion.

Again, thank you for taking the time to read this in-depth. I didn't expect anyone to do that.