Damned if you do >> #3 << - Assorted Moral Conflict Q's


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This is a discussion on Damned if you do >> #3 << - Assorted Moral Conflict Q's within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Q1. Concentration Camp -- help kill your own child, or watch your child + an innocent man die as well. ...

  1. #21
    INFP - The Idealists

    Q1. Concentration Camp -- help kill your own child, or watch your child + an innocent man die as well.

    Wouldn't take any part in killing of my child. The man is trying pull the mentality that the fault of another man's death would be in my hands; but it's nothing new. Crazy people have been doing that for years (terrorism, kidnappings, and so on) and if you give in once, who's to say he won't do it to you again? Rape this fellow inmate or I'll shoot another, etc, etc. Also there's no guarantee he won't just shoot him anyways. Someone with that mentality would probably REVEL in doing that, so you'd feel you killed your child for nothing...

    You can't forget whose choice it really is. At any point, he could stop. The path and the choice to continue is his alone.

    Q2.Emergency Affair. ATTEMPT (low %) to save your spouse that turns out has been cheating on you, or save ensure the survival of spouses lover (guaranteed).

    Spouse. A thousand time spouse, if there's any chance. My relationship with the man is a non-issue. Change the question: Best friend high chance, or Spouse low chance?

    Spouse.

    Q3. Your daughter has been raped in the past by your neighbor (has gone unpunished). Later, the neighbor's wife has been murdered, but based on you witnessing him at a restaurant the other night, it seems unlikely he was the perpetrator. Still he is facing conviction and will likely be found guilty. What would you do?

    The man is dead to me as a person, ever since that act. I don't believe in taking revenge into your own hands; but I'm certainly never helping the man again, no matter the situation. The incriminations against him are nothing to do with me; his life is now in the hands of the human justices who have already failed me once. No guilt at all.

    Q4. Pregnant woman, she is stuck (in both senses of the term) in a cave with a group of others. They will all drown upon the impending waves, but one man has dynamite that will help set them free, but ultimately kill the pregnant woman.



    No, I wouldn't kill the pregnant lady with dynamite, LOL. (Was the questionnaire writer a director of a SAW movie or something...?!) Who would that thought even OCCUR to, under that circumstance...?! Seriously. You might think of trying another part of the cave that you think gives you the most chance of getting out (if she's at the highest elevation, surely there's a section further along where you could stick it to the roof and float up into the space?) I'm not trying to cheat here though: Just no.

    Q5. Car accident resulting in death. You are at fault, but another person comes by and she believes it was her doing. She seems ready to fess up to it which will likely result in a jail sentence. Will you acknowledge it was your fault and go to jail?

    No, it's my fault. You wear it. Who's to say the jury doesn't swing and convict this woman? At that point would you saying "It was me" even have an effect? I can't take that chance of another person serving my sentence.

    Q6. Bombs placed in multiple crowded areas. Many lives potentially lost, the perpetrator has been apprehended, but will not divulge information. Torture is an open to make him open up -- do you think it's justifiable in this situation? What if he refuses to talk? Do you believe we should torture his wife if it's the only means of making him talk?

    Same as question 1: You can't forget who's choice it really is. At any point, he could stop. The path and the choice to continue is his alone. Torture is no option. The world doesn't stop being violent, hateful and vengeful until we all individually make the decision to stop instigating, to stop reacting to bad, and so on. I'm not naive enough to believe this will ever happen on a worldwide consensus, while the world is so divided by unfair resource divide, but that can't stop me living it in the meantime.


    EDIT: Oh and time taken, 25 mins...
    Last edited by YouPullMeThroughTime; 10-12-2011 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Added time taken
    Lad and Somniorum thanked this post.



  2. #22
    INFP - The Idealists

    huzzah, another one of these! these are always great to do/read!

    @Lad is my hero


    Q1. Concentration Camp -- help kill your own child, or watch your child + an innocent man die as well.

    immediately kill the guard. ok, fine, i cant do that...

    i'd have to kill my child - he's going to die one way or another, and there's no point in bringing another to the gallows with him.

    ... then kill the guard later whenever i get the chance.


    Q2.Emergency Affair. ATTEMPT (low %) to save your spouse that turns out has been cheating on you, or save ensure the survival of spouses lover (guaranteed).

    this is difficult to answer truthfully, as much of this would likely rely on a gut response, given the relative urgency of action and the emotional shock i'd be in.

    i suspect that, an immediate instinct response would be to help my spouse, unless i were to see that her wound was lesser than the others in an obvious way. but in this case, the wording of the question displays that i know how things are.

    if i have the ability to analyse things well enough - and considering that the wording of the scenario suggests that i HAVE been able to analyse things rather competently - i would help the lover who is helping my wife cheat. s/he is guaranteed to live if i help, guaranteed to die if not. my wife is guaranteed to die if she doesnt get help, but unlikely to live even if i do. i'd have to go with the numbers.

    my heart would be broken either way. the lover of my wife, i may not instinctually like much, but s/he doesnt deserve to die - and my wife is at least as guilty as s/he, anyway.

    Q3. Your daughter has been raped in the past by your neighbor (has gone unpunished). Later, the neighbor's wife has been murdered, but based on you witnessing him at a restaurant the other night, it seems unlikely he was the perpetrator. Still he is facing conviction and will likely be found guilty. What would you do?

    as much as i despise him, i despise people scapegoating others who are innocent of the crime in question - partly as a matter of abstract justice, and partly because it, as you thoughtfully pointed out in your scenario, allows the real perpetrator to escape free.

    even if it doesnt result in the other being caught, i'd still rather the murder not be pinned on the paedophile.

    and, anyway, this doesnt preclude that i might not be able to handle the paedophile later in some other way... one hopes that he's the scum who made me kill my son in the concentration camp who i'll get back to later.

    Q4. Pregnant woman, she is stuck (in both senses of the term) in a cave with a group of others. They will all drown upon the impending waves, but one man has dynamite that will help set them free, but ultimately kill the pregnant woman.

    ...

    -_-;

    this question is unintentionally hilarious. hmmmm, should i press the "blow up the pregnant woman with dynamite" button???

    ... so far, i've taken the bare logical answers, played the numbers. in this case, i might not do that. it depends. this is slightly more of a matter of free will, than merely sacrificing someone for another. what if the people trapped behind are so abhorred at the thought of the pregnant woman dying that they dont *want* to... erm... blow her up -_-;

    to make my decision, i'd have to talk with the lot of them, learn whether the pregnant woman is willing to make the sacrifice or not. she, in this case, is the core of my decision - if she's *willing* to sacrifice herself, then i'll kill her. if she isnt, then it's miserable, but i wont (well, it's miserable either way). sometimes, sacrifices must be made - and it's noble enough for multiple people to sacrifice themselves to save one person... and vice versa.

    i'd give them all a deadline to answer - because obviously a choice has to be made. i would act in accord to their wishes - perhaps i might even be convinced to kill the woman without her consent, if the others make a good enough argument.

    then i'll go home and cry. or possibly go to jail.

    Q5. Car accident resulting in death. You are at fault, but another person comes by and she believes it was her doing. She seems ready to fess up to it which will likely result in a jail sentence. Will you acknowledge it was your fault and go to jail?

    this is an easy enough one for me.

    "no... no, you didnt do it... i killed her, it was all me..."

    i'll go to jail. it's likely that my life is worth less than hers anyway. and, anyway, i'm the one who actually did it. it's time for me to pay.

    Q6. Bombs placed in multiple crowded areas. Many lives potentially lost, the perpetrator has been apprehended, but will not divulge information. Torture is an open to make him open up -- do you think it's justifiable in this situation? What if he refuses to talk? Do you believe we should torture his wife if it's the only means of making him talk?

    this is difficult for me...

    one common thing people say in opposition of torture is that it doesnt even work... i'm doubtful about this. i've read enough history to know that torture does, indeed, work, as long as you dont care about "breaking a few eggs," and as long as you're intelligent in your analysis of the answers.

    but i loathe torture.

    do i loathe it enough to let many other people die? ... i may have to accept it... if that's the only choice i have.

    i would refuse to harm his wife, who is innocent. because she is innocent.

    it seems to me there are many other ways to approach this without being forced to follow the rules you've laid out, and i would look for alternatives. as i do despise torture.

    ... ok. that last one was quite difficult...

    let's see what everyone else wrote now...

    (edit) oh, incidentally, what a miserable life it is that i'm going to have! : ( apparently at some point, my wife cheats on me and probably dies, my daughter gets raped, and i and my son end up in a concentration camp and he gets killed... gosh, i dont have much to look forward to, do i???
    FaveteLinguis, Lad, SpaceAble and 1 others thanked this post.



  3. #23
    INFP - The Idealists

    Question #1

    No, I wouldn't do it.. I simply don't trust the guard to Not kill another one of us. That fucker gets off on us killing our own..but if he kills my son, I would try whatever to kill him, even if it means me getting killed


    Question #2

    Easy, I would try to do everything to save my wife. Yeah, it's messed up how she cheated on me, but I would forgive her instantaneously...or at least put it in the back of my head. I don't know the other guy, so tough luck dude. Besides, the question said there would be a high chance that she would die. So there's a tiny-little chance she'll survive...then I'll deal with her.


    Question #3

    I think I would not say anything. If anything... I would kick his ass at the restaurant.

    Question #4

    Aww, that's fucked up..I don't know, mind you, my lady is pregnant at this time...so I say let her and the baby live.


    Question #5


    I would take the blame. It was my fault.


    Question #6

    This is a tough one.. yea, torture him, and I guess his wife too. If its to save hundreds of people then do it. And whatever, they probably have already done this.
    Lad thanked this post.



  4. #24
    INFP - The Idealists

    It'd be more fun to read most of these responses if people were actually choosing between the choices given in each scenario and not supplying their own "ifs" "cans" and "buts" and outer details. D;
    krentz, sanari and Volis. thanked this post.



  5. #25
    INFP - The Idealists

    Q1. Concentration Camp -- help kill your own child, or watch your child + an innocent man die as well.

    I wouldn't kill my child. Taking another's life goes against my principles, and I'm not responsible for other people's actions.

    Q2.Emergency Affair. ATTEMPT (low %) to save your spouse that turns out has been cheating on you, or save ensure the survival of spouses lover (guaranteed).

    I would save my spouse's lover, since it's guaranteed they would survive. While my spouse would obviously be way more important to me, I'm sure my spouse's lover would be equally important to other people out there. To attempt to save my spouse who would likely not survive regardless would be to place a greater value on my spouse's life, and I believe that all lives are equal.

    Q3. Your daughter has been raped in the past by your neighbor (has gone unpunished). Later, the neighbor's wife has been murdered, but based on you witnessing him at a restaurant the other night, it seems unlikely he was the perpetrator. Still he is facing conviction and will likely be found guilty. What would you do?

    I would give him an alibi. I don't feel that it would be right for me to withhold the truth, regardless of how I felt about the man. People shouldn't be convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

    Q4. Pregnant woman, she is stuck (in both senses of the term) in a cave with a group of others. They will all drown upon the impending waves, but one man has dynamite that will help set them free, but ultimately kill the pregnant woman.


    I don't think they should use the dynamite since that would be murder. If the woman weren't pregnant, I would say they should use it only in the case she expressed that she wanted them to, but in this scenario that would still be killing the unborn child, who would have no say in it.

    Q5. Car accident resulting in death. You are at fault, but another person comes by and she believes it was her doing. She seems ready to fess up to it which will likely result in a jail sentence. Will you acknowledge it was your fault and go to jail?


    Yes, it would be wrong to let someone else go to jail in my place.

    Q6. Bombs placed in multiple crowded areas. Many lives potentially lost, the perpetrator has been apprehended, but will not divulge information. Torture is an open to make him open up -- do you think it's justifiable in this situation? What if he refuses to talk? Do you believe we should torture his wife if it's the only means of making him talk?

    No, I don't believe that torture is ever justifiable.
    IcyShiv, Lad and Somniorum thanked this post.



  6. #26
    INTJ - The Scientists


    Quote Originally Posted by goldentryst View Post
    It'd be more fun to read most of these responses if people were actually choosing between the choices given in each scenario and not supplying their own "ifs" "cans" and "buts" and outer details. D;
    I agree. People, please post what YOU would do. No hypotheticals.



  7. #27
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by goldentryst View Post
    It'd be more fun to read most of these responses if people were actually choosing between the choices given in each scenario and not supplying their own "ifs" "cans" and "buts" and outer details. D;
    Life is never black and white and yes or no, there will always be room for grays, if, cans and buts. I do not deal in absolutes ... well except the absolute about me not dealing in absolutes.

    I do not need to be given the third option, I will make it if I don't like the choices.



  8. #28
    INFP - The Idealists

    Answer, #1:
    ill just pull the chair so an innocent person doesn't have to go since my boy's going anyway regardless of which option i choose. but i bet once i make this decision the guard kills another random person anyway just to prove his dominance. and to try to fuck with mine and everybody else's head. but it wont mess with my mind. that is his bad karma/energy to deal with , not mine.

    ACTUALLY. i'd RATHER kill my own son knowing that i love him than let some jackass who considers him disposable do it. and who is only doing it to prove a point to the rest of us. to feed his sadistic ego.

    and it's not like i'm being forced to stab him to death, or punch him in the face or anything. i pull a chair and he goes.... no blood.. and hangings are almost always instant deaths so hopefully his death will be quick and painless...

    and the guard will get his in the end. yes i killed my son but my motivation was love. my intent was pure. but him forcing me to kill my son was not an act that manifested itself out of love...... so yes, believe he will get his.



    ...Ok I really can't answer the rest because I get too into this. lol . maybe later
    Lad thanked this post.



  9. #29
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceinExile View Post
    Life is never black and white and yes or no, there will always be room for grays, if, cans and buts. I do not deal in absolutes ... well except the absolute about me not dealing in absolutes.

    I do not need to be given the third option, I will make it if I don't like the choices.
    but this isn't real life, it's a situation/circumstance game that someone made up on a message board. and your way is not in accordance with the rules the OP stated. he specifically asked for no loopholes so that's just being rebellious and it comes off as spiteful and disrespectful.
    Somniorum thanked this post.



  10. #30
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Volis. View Post
    but that's not in accordance with the rules of the OP's game. he specifically asked for no loopholes so that's just being rebellious and it comes off as spiteful.
    I do not care how I come off, this asks what I would do, if the options are inauthentic too myself than any answer I could give would simply be a lie. I see that as something far more spiteful.




 
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