[niki]

Anybody else also with me here?



I just freakin' hate it.
I know that this may seriously sound 'immature' coming from an almost 29-yrs old guy like me, but really I often can't stand the concept that you have to live your life MOSTLY (yes, I said *mostly*, as regarded as the "normal standard") to labor and toil,...and MOSTLY only so to rake some Money (ie: sometimes, or often, doing what we don't like/want to do), all in hope that so THEN we can do what we want with the Money. But alas and ironically, sometimes many of us even got 'trapped' by Money so we live our life NOT able to do what we really want, constantly get trapped 'till we gets old, have family, then we die.

But I don't know...
it seems that the majority of people I've spoken said that "this is necessary and the only logical way to live in society, so society can keep progressing".
If it's really progressing, then I have no qualms about it.
But often, what I saw often in Reality (and thankfully many people have also become increasingly aware of the 'problems' lately) is actually the reverse: Money often HINDERS more progress, because there's all now these schemes, politics, and dirty tricks to ONLY get the Money. People (& society largely) would now do and seem to focus on "how to get the Money the easiest, fastest way, even if it means to be cheating, to be 'cunning', "smart", clever, sly, etc etc.

Somebody please tell me that I'm NOT the only one who sees (& feels) something is just freakin' not right here..!
especially after watching this awesome educational video:

and of course yes, I've become such a huge, major disappointment to my 'traditional-mindset' chinese parents, so yeah...just hate how this world works, seriously! (sorry to be complaining and whining, just don't know where else I can pour my inner-heart out if not on this board with my fellow INFPs!)

[gemofgreen]

I agree with every last word you said. Money has brainwashed almost everyone, and this capitalist society is ruled by money and brainwashed money hungry zombies.

The good thing is, we can separate ourselves somewhat from this society. It used to make me incredibly sad - I mean, very darkly sad, like I was doomed and I might as well end it - that this society is so pervasive in the world. I felt like there was nowhere I could go to escape it. And I still feel that way, because I think it's mostly true. I have not traveled the entire world, but the capitalist mindset is so pervasive, from what I read and from what I hear from others who actually have traveled the world. It'd be nice to live in a world where money does not rule but rather people are respectful of one another and care much more about one another than they do about making a buck. But alas, that in its pure form, untouched by neighboring capitalists, is a fantasy at this point in time...

So, in order to save myself from feeling completely doomed and feeling like I want to die, I've decided that I do not like money, do not want to make a lot of it (almost refuse to make a lot of it, because then I would be participating in something I loathe), will participate little in the constant consumerism/will support as little as possible the big business, corporate giants that fuel this horrible system; but rather, I will work only as much as I need to to survive and hopefully that work will be for a small business whose owner I know personally, or for myself, and when not working, I will read, write, ride my bike, explore, love and surround myself with nature. One day I want to live in such a way that I am self-sustainable as far as food (growing all of my own) and almost as far as electricity goes (largely solar). I realize that this is not the norm, and I used to care because of the stigma I get from the capitalists, but I stopped caring about that. I really do not care about how I am viewed by mainstream society. I'd like to be viewed negatively by it, even, since I cannot support it.

[OrangeSoda]

Yes I totally know what you mean and agree with what you are saying. The only thing that makes me feel better about this situation is working towards an alturnative. I feel a great responsibility to go towards creating an alturnative to Capitialism in my lifetime. Its true that it would be unlikely that it will fall in my lifetime, its just I would like to help work towards it. I don't want future generations to feel this same misery/isolation. I think a lot of people think this way too, its just that they don't know what else to do about it.

[One4YesTwo4No]

I wish I could draw that fast.

I feel the same way. It's scary to think that someday, someday soon, I'm going to go to work, and then for the rest of my life I'm going to be working. I really don't want to.

[peterbreter]

Agree with you all the way. I think our society is just a hidden slavery system to be honest. If you want to just live in a house you built and eat the food you've grown, you still have to pay taxes and such in most countries. A currency based economy no longer makes sense going forward based on our technological advances and potential.

That's why something like the Venus Project has interested me. They want to create a resource based economy where there is very little use for mindless work. Would be awesome to be able to study the things I want and live by my own terms, instead of always worrying about paying my loans off and making rent. I think we are close to having the technology to be able to set up a system like that and it would be cool to be a part of the group that brings in the change. I fear that the politicians and businesses have us in a vice grip, worrying about unnecessary republican/democrat debates and what the latest thing Sarah Palin said is.

Great video. Got me more curious in that MIT study and I will look into it further as I am curious to see what the problems were that they had to figure out.

[hasenj]

I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.

[LeafStew]

I have mixed feeling about this since I study accounting. It's a bit alienating to question your only marketable skills lol. On one hand I went the business route to understand how this system works got to appreciate it a bit in a way. On the other I really think that prostituting your time to someone who has more capital than you do because in a way you want to match his wealthiness through serving him is really not a great way of living. In fact it's a quite sucky aspiration to have. Money's main purpose is to fulfill your needs. Since we've traded the subsistence approach to life to a more segmented/specialized way of living/working (aka farming your own food vs specialist in product pricing that buys his own food at the grocery store for instance).

One part of me want to just do something I like and live my little quiet life doing my own stuff. Not really care and enjoy a simple life approach to life. Another part of me want to try and gain a lot of money, meet my basic need forever after and impact society in a beneficial way with the rest of it using that very same system.

[LeafStew]

I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.

What can I say? We've all been conditioned from a very young age about the value of money (mow my lawn/babysit your brother and I'll give you money). It's is now our most sought after reward.

[Eldritch Blue Rose]

If I could live a life with only the modest amount to survive, while donating the rest to those who need it, I'd be satisfied.

I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.

You must be plugged into my brain, because I was thinking the same thing.

[OrangeAppled]

I agree.

I mean, I completely understand that realistically we need money to survive (it's a tool to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services), but the SJ mindset is what annoys me: the idea that your life has to revolve around making money, even if it means enduring the worst hardships. It's just ridiculous: money is a tool, not a goal.

I agree with this (the tool vs. goal thing), but I don't think it's an SJ mindset driving this attitude. I'm pretty sure my ISFJ mom would love that video. SFJs in particular are people-focused, and Feeling adds a measure of idealism to their otherwise "down to earth" nature.

Without fingering any type, I'd associate using some kind of visible/real world unit to measure value of work and to reward that work with another measured unit with a Te mindset (probably why it irks Fi-doms so much). The video shows how thinking money is the best reward seems "logical" to many people, but this is because they are out of touch with larger human needs, needs which are not capable of being "measured" really. It's so obvious to us Fi-doms, because our mindset is to view things through that lens of what is valuable personally, which is not easily measured with any real world unit.

This makes me think of businesses that try & skirt around these larger human needs by creating systems of reward (which again, use something tangible that can often be measured) to supplant real autonomy, mastery, etc. You know, "employee of the month" type of stuff. It fails at what it strives for, IMO, because it doesn't grasp that the work itself must provide these feelings of satisfaction, not a piece of paper representing an evaluation coming from another person.