[jd_]

I was wondering how one *really* deciphers the score measure between T/F ...

If one is truly a T, by definition of T... then one would need to almost score 100% T, as by definition T should objectively override F in every situation.

So for those say, not scoring over say 90% or so in T, to rule out a few anomalous answers, especially males who might be in the borderline range on this scoring slightly 60-70% T or so...they are probably actually an F. And will still be able to use T when absolutely necessary, thus the percentage, but primarily function as an F in the real world given they don't have to make a decision on something.




I think a lot of the people in the INTP forum are actually probably F's, especially some of the males.

Anyway, that was my deduction that I am actually an INFP, and not the INTP. Either that or I am an INTP with extremely developed F, and even if I know the logic extremely clear, I choose F over it, but from what I understand, that is the basis for deciding F or T.
Watching some of the people I view to be true INTP's are far too rigid in logic, almost irrationally so at times to void their authenticity or sense of self. Of course no offense to any INTP's...

Thoughts?

[rbgj]

this sounds very t to me. Or rather like an F using T.

[FreeBeer]

As it was explained to me: F people tend to go into the group or get close to the problem/conflict/whatever and solve it from the inside. T people are objective and like to step back to view the situation from the outside. F tends to focus on the people while T on the problems.

In order to make the difference between an INFP or and INTP you have to look at the functions.

INFP - Fi Ne Si Te

We feel strongly about everything, Fi is like an internal compass. Every situation has a feeling based value. We tend to make the decision based on that value. Since we take in information through Ne, the value might change as we explore the real possibilities in the outside world. Si kinda sux and can not be consciously controlled, we barely use Te so putting logical order into reality does not happen for the most part until we get stressed out. Stress turns the INFP into and ESTJ with Te as the primary function. Stressed INFPs put logical order into the world based on what they felt prior to the stress episode. This is why we get ppl fired sometimes if they upset us. ^^ made a joke there but yeah is true. Our te is kinda crappy so don't expect more then this.

INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe

The INTP primary function is Ti. This is very different from Fi, using introverted thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, they search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.

This is backed up by Ne which gathers all the possibilities from the outside world. Si is barely used over here also and is unconscious. Fe gets activated when the INTP is stressed mostly because then it becomes an ESFJ with Fe as the primary function, focusing on expressing and showing those feelings the INTP has under stress. The fe of an INTP is crappy so don't expect more then expressing their own feelings about a situation to others and stumbling insight into how others might feel in that situation.

No person can be 100% T or F and most people tend to be somewhere closer to the middle. Think of it as a slider bar lol, every F has T moments and every T has F moments but mostly we tend to favor one over the other.

I myself can go into being objective but it won't be as good as a T person and I get this grey feeling about it...just don't like it.

On a last note I would like to inform you that we all use the 8 functions.

The way you dissect the problem tells me you are a natural Ti user.

I'm a crazy and dangerous libertarian/anarchist who follows what he feels in a given situation, but I will do some thinking....will suck at using Ti thou...ugh...

Also feeling is more of a gut reaction type of thing. Like "this does not feel good...and it triggered this type of feeling or that, but I don't understand why yet...so I have to struggle to understand in order to give a good definition as to why." Usually gathering more information and exploring the options, subconsciously recalling things from experience and getting the feeling right is what we do.

o.o so it is simple and I may have made some errors here because...well as I said Ti is not my specialty.

^^ best way is to look at multiple descriptions of both and see which one fits you more.

[hasenj]

Oh please oh please stop appealing to "function order"; it's not very reliable.

The way you dissect the problem tells me you are a natural Ti user.

If dissecting a problem makes one INTP then I'm an INTP as well.

I choose F because I make my life decisions based on what I feel is important to me on an emotional and personal level, as opposed to what others (SJs) think is what makes sense.

It doesn't have anything to do with having (or not having) the ability to dissect a problem logically and solve it.

[FreeBeer]

Oh please oh please stop appealing to "function order"; it's not very reliable.



If dissecting a problem makes one INTP then I'm an INTP as well.

I choose F because I make my life decisions based on what I feel is important to me on an emotional and personal level, as opposed to what others (SJs) think is what makes sense.

It doesn't have anything to do with having (or not having) the ability to dissect a problem logically and solve it.

Yes it does. INFPs don't do that directly.

Look the main judging functions we use are both introverted because we are perceives and these are the definitions:

Fi - Introverted Feeling

It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.


Ti - Introverted Thinking

Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.

The only other active function both types use is Ne, so that is the same. the difference lies in the main judging functions Fi and Ti.

These are not the same people. They judge situations in different ways and arrive at conclusions in different ways. Thinking is not feeling. They are different.

Function order is what makes the difference. Read a book on it like I have.

Honestly my gut is telling me that OP is not an F. if you guys think you are Fs then explain what you think makes you INFP plz.

[FreeBeer]

Let me explain what makes me an INFP:

What happens to me when I get into a situation with other people where there is something to solve is this:

I get a gut reaction, a feeling in general about the situation, I can define it through colors or something different. Example would be if I feel stress and sadness then it will be a feeling in my gut and chest, a ball of pulsating red and grey twisted lines, dimly lit inside of me. Then I will look at the people involved and I can tell who is being sincere, who is an ass, sort of just get the essence of a person and this also will be accompanied individually by smells and images, colors that I associate with that person. Example my statistics teacher at collage, I associated snow, blue deep lake and pine trees with him, a wolf and the scent of something burning in the cold winter air. My ex gf feels like a sunset, open roads and orange is what I see in her, also yellow and the feeling of something old and warm. Continuing on I will explore all the possibilities that could make the situation these people and I are facing better from within by talking and brainstorming ideas, getting a sense of what they are feeling. I will trust what comes from this and a feeling will form also with imagery, smells, colors attached.

Other example would be listening to songs. I will feel the feelings inside my body and can tell is it sharp, what color the feeling has what memories I associate with it, images. It will well up inside me and trigger things. Same thing with everything. it is kinda hard to fully describe.

This may sound odd but I associate colors with numbers

1 is white
2 is black
3 is pink
4 is yellow
5 is green
6 is brown
7 is light blue
8 is red
9 is light brown
10 is white

Obviously there is more to being an INFP but this is kinda what is different. These things change from people to people and the things we associate with the feelings we get are different depending on experience. The process should be the same thou.

Intuition is like making connections between things and branching out into more and more ideas.

Obviously I procrastinate and am very random, do things in bursts, like start one thing then slow down and branch off into doing something else, then return to doing the main thing if I didn't start of another thing beforehand lol. Kinda like jumping from things to things.

I'm introverted ^^ meaning I get energy from being alone, thou...I doubt this sometimes because I like brainstorming things with people so damn much and it fires me up.

You can read the rest of the descriptions if you Google the type but Fi is what makes the understandable difference between INTP and INFP.

I am more of an ANFP then INFP or ENFP

[username]

Hey, could I be INFP? I usually test as a slightly expressed thinker. I am highly introverted, and I thought that might account for my sensitivity and how well I understand feeling, but I still wonder how a "thinker" could be so careful in dealing with the feelings of other people.

[hasenj]

Function order is what makes the difference. Read a book on it like I have.

Function order is a theory about what makes the difference. Have you read "Please understand me"? The author (Keirsey) completely rejects the notions of Jungian functions.

David Keirsey's disagreement with the "cognitive functions" hypothesis.

Honestly my gut is telling me that OP is not an F. if you guys think you are Fs then explain what you think makes you INFP plz.

INFP description fits me better.

If you can't dissect problems, maybe your F is too high, or you never practiced your T :P

I also don't agree with the notion that T/F are rational while N/S are irrational.

To me, N means that when you receive information, you don't "memorize" it as a list of facts, instead, you try to construct a mental model of connecting ideas. This process (of building a mental model) is very rational. And it's not like "sensors" don't have this ability, they do (I'm sure) but their *preference* is for facts.

And so, INFPs can totally dissect problems as if they were using Ti, it's just not how they approach everything in their life.

The thing about the MBTI is that you can't judge someone's type based on *one* situation. MBTI doesn't predict exactly what you'll do everytime; rather it predicts your average behavior. That is, on average, you'll tend to use Fi more. On average, INTPs tend to use Ti more often. On average, sensors prefer facts to ideas and philosophy.

[FreeBeer]

Function order is a theory about what makes the difference. Have you read "Please understand me"? The author (Keirsey) completely rejects the notions of Jungian functions.

David Keirsey's disagreement with the "cognitive functions" hypothesis.


INFP description fits me better.

If you can't dissect problems, maybe your F is too high, or you never practiced your T :P

I also don't agree with the notion that T/F are rational while N/S are irrational.

To me, N means that when you receive information, you don't "memorize" it as a list of facts, instead, you try to construct a mental model of connecting ideas. This process (of building a mental model) is very rational. And it's not like "sensors" don't have this ability, they do (I'm sure) but their *preference* is for facts.

And so, INFPs can totally dissect problems as if they were using Ti, it's just not how they approach everything in their life.

The thing about the MBTI is that you can't judge someone's type based on *one* situation. MBTI doesn't predict exactly what you'll do everytime; rather it predicts your average behavior. That is, on average, you'll tend to use Fi more. On average, INTPs tend to use Ti more often. On average, sensors prefer facts to ideas and philosophy.

:P I never said I can't dissect things. Obviously I can. It will bore the hell out of me if no feeling is driving my actions thou. Since i prefer not to do this, I'm not very good at doing it. I prefer to "dissect" feelings mainly mine about things. Thou my Fe and Ni are really high as well. My Te is not bad but Ti really sucks to be honest. I get so wound up in subjective feeling that expressing objective idea analysis is hard.

Didn't read that. The MBTI is based on the function theory. If you throw that out the window then might as well ignore the MBTI. I did read "Was that really me?" by Naomi L. Quenk psychologist and INFP

^^ you guys still didn't define what makes you INFP and not INTP. I'm really curious.

Keirsey INFP description

Healers present a calm and serene face to the world, and can seem shy, even distant around others. But inside they're anything but serene, having a capacity for personal caring rarely found in the other types. Healers care deeply about the inner life of a few special persons, or about a favorite cause in the world at large. And their great passion is to heal the conflicts that trouble individuals, or that divide groups, and thus to bring wholeness, or health, to themselves, their loved ones, and their community.

Healers have a profound sense of idealism that comes from a strong personal sense of right and wrong. They conceive of the world as an ethical, honorable place, full of wondrous possibilities and potential goods. In fact, to understand Healers, we must understand that their deep commitment to the positive and the good is almost boundless and selfless, inspiring them to make extraordinary sacrifices for someone or something they believe in. Set off from the rest of humanity by their privacy and scarcity, Healers can often feel even more isolated in the purity of their idealism.

Video Profile of an Idealist Also, Healers might well feel a sense of separation because of their often misunderstood childhood. Healers live a fantasy-filled childhood-they are the prince or princess of fairy tales-an attitude which, sadly, is frowned upon, or even punished, by many parents. With parents who want them to get their head out of the clouds, Healers begin to believe they are bad to be so fanciful, so dreamy, and can come to see themselves as ugly ducklings. In truth, they are quite OK just as they are, only different from most others-swans reared in a family of ducks.

At work, Healers are adaptable, welcome new ideas and new information, are patient with complicated situations, but impatient with routine details. Healers are keenly aware of people and their feelings, and relate well with most others. Because of their deep-seated reserve, however, they can work quite happily alone. When making decisions, Healers follow their heart not their head, which means they can make errors of fact, but seldom of feeling. They have a natural interest in scholarly activities and demonstrate, like the other Idealists, a remarkable facility with language. They have a gift for interpreting stories, as well as for creating them, and thus often write in lyric, poetic fashion. Frequently they hear a call to go forth into the world and help others, a call they seem ready to answer, even if they must sacrifice their own comfort.

Keirsey INTP description

Architects need not be thought of as only interested in drawing blueprints for buildings or roads or bridges. They are the master designers of all kinds of theoretical systems, including school curricula, corporate strategies, and new technologies. For Architects, the world exists primarily to be analyzed, understood, explained - and re-designed. External reality in itself is unimportant, little more than raw material to be organized into structural models. What is important for Architects is that they grasp fundamental principles and natural laws, and that their designs are elegant, that is, efficient and coherent.

Architects are rare - maybe one percent of the population - and show the greatest precision in thought and speech of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made. It is difficult for an Architect to listen to nonsense, even in a casual conversation, without pointing out the speaker's error. And in any serious discussion or debate Architects are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage. Architects regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.

Video Profile of a Rational Ruthless pragmatists about ideas, and insatiably curious, Architects are driven to find the most efficient means to their ends, and they will learn in any manner and degree they can. They will listen to amateurs if their ideas are useful, and will ignore the experts if theirs are not. Authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them. Architects are interested only in what make sense, and thus only statements that are consistent and coherent carry any weight with them.

Architects often seem difficult to know. They are inclined to be shy except with close friends, and their reserve is difficult to penetrate. Able to concentrate better than any other type, they prefer to work quietly at their computers or drafting tables, and often alone. Architects also become obsessed with analysis, and this can seem to shut others out. Once caught up in a thought process, Architects close off and persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. Architects prize intelligence, and with their grand desire to grasp the structure of the universe, they can seem arrogant and may show impatience with others who have less ability, or who are less driven.

The language thing is interesting I speak 5 languages in total o.o l gotta say it is fun

x.x gah well anyway everyone decides for themselves. just don't try to be an INFP because you think that will make you more lovable or something. We are a moody strange bunch :P I wish I was an ENFJ

My profound sense of idealism :\ has manifested itself in anarchism and songs like this:



o.o you can still be some other type I know i went from INFP to ENFP to INFJ to ENFJ and back to INFP again. ^^; lol, so good luck.

[FreeBeer]

Hey, could I be INFP? I usually test as a slightly expressed thinker. I am highly introverted, and I thought that might account for my sensitivity and how well I understand feeling, but I still wonder how a "thinker" could be so careful in dealing with the feelings of other people.

o.o well could be. How do you experience feelings?