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INFPs and Christianity

25K views 138 replies 66 participants last post by  MrShyRockstar 
#1 ·
Just FYI, anyone can feel free to post in this discussion! Just keep in mind the original intent (not that an INFP would EVER go of on a rabbit trail, right?). :p

Also, pretty much assuming you all are fairly non-confrontational, but we can get a little zealous if our personal beliefs are threatened. I assure you, the intent of this is NOT to criticize other belief systems - just to find out about people who share mine.


So I was just wondering about any fellow INFPs who would call themselves Christian.

What denomination do you identify with (if any)?

Do you feel isolated and martyr-ish because of your faith, or do you feel like it helps you to overcome some of your limitations?

How do you deal with sharing your faith (the Great Commission doesn't exactly say "INFP's, don't worry about this. You're good.")?

How do you deal with doubts/times of questioning?

Plus, anything else you feel like sharing - there's not a direction I really see this going. Just kinda curious as to how other INFP Christians feel their faith interacts with their personalities.

Again, anyone can feel free to comment - maybe you don't believe the same as me but have some perspective on this. That's fine! But if ya don't mind staying on the general topic, that'd be cool. :)
 
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#2 ·
Hey, thanks for starting this thread! I've been wondering about Christian INFPs, too. :happy:

What denomination do you identify with (if any)?
It used to be probably Baptist, Berean, or non-denominational, but I don't associate with a particular denomination anymore. I'm so Protestant I don't have a denomination. haha. haha. :crazy: Aaaanywho...I actually quit going to church last semester. I'm certainly not opposed to it; I just realized that I don't get much out of it. I may go back in the future. However, for the time being, I'd rather examine my own life and work directly on whatever problems I have rather than having shallow conversations with people I barely know at church, singing songs while surrounded by a mob of people (I'd rather express my feelings to God in the privacy of my own room), and listening to a sermon or sitting in a Bible study that's the wrong antidote to whatever's poisoning my soul. Again, I may go back in the future, but right now I personally just don't see the merit in going to church. I would love to hear other Christian INFPs' views on attending church though.

Do you feel isolated and martyr-ish because of your faith, or do you feel like it helps you to overcome some of your limitations?
Yeah, I can feel isolated. For instance, I probably won't be friends with anyone who doesn't share my beliefs or who doesn't at least think they are important; there's simply little to talk about and no basis for the friendship. I guess my faith helps me overcome my limitations as a mere human being. Simply knowing that God loves me gives me a purpose in life: to show that love to others.

How do you deal with sharing your faith (the Great Commission doesn't exactly say "INFP's, don't worry about this. You're good.")?
If I can tell that someone's interested in what I have to say, I'm much more likely to share. I'm not much of a prophet unless it's with one of my friends, in which case I can be pretty forceful. Maybe I should be more outspoken with strangers...not really sure. :confused: I'm also a huge fan of C.S. Lewis, especially Mere Christianity, and I used to be a philosophy major, so I try to take what I learned and apply it to Christianity and then explain it to other people.

How do you deal with doubts/times of questioning?
I usually study the topic like crazy, ask people I think can help, and do some intense contemplation. If it's something I really want to know, I simply can't rest until I have some sort of resolution.

Plus, anything else you feel like sharing - there's not a direction I really see this going. Just kinda curious as to how other INFP Christians feel their faith interacts with their personalities.
I tend to think a huge contributing factor as to why I don't attend church anymore has a lot to do with me being an INFP. I don't like structure, I don't like being in large groups of people, and I don't typically outwardly express my emotions. I'm also prone to depression I think (I know, not necessarily only an INFP thing), but I think it's my faith and what I've learned through some studying and my philosophy classes that prevents me from sinking into despair. For instance, life may feel meaningless...however, just because I don't feel that it has meaning, doesn't mean that it doesn't; I'm simply looking in the wrong place for it, and, besides, if life has no meaning, how should I have found out that it has no meaning? The "real world" is meaningless; you must look Above for meaning and do your best to make it happen in your everyday life. In my case, I want to show others the love God has shown me, help the depressed and discouraged...something I think INFPs are naturally good at, only I now have a reason to do it, which also gets me outside my own head when I would otherwise become lost in my own mental abyss; this, for me at least, is one way I "lose myself to find myself."
 
#3 · (Edited)
I grew up Cathlolic...
Went to Catholic school/church till I was 18.
I've read the Bible several times.
While I was being shot up with a bad strain of faith I would have told you (from about 12-19) that I didn't beleive in God, it was a silly idea. My intuituons of God were so far removed from how they described "him".
I don't attend church anymore, unless I get chosen as a cantor.
I don't consider myself a Christian, but I think Jesus was pretty awesome.
I believe if we choose to be as enlightened as Jesus we can be...
 
#4 ·
Sorry it is long. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately and I rambled. It could have been much longer.

I've always struggled with the church scene. Growing up in Sunday school/youth group was fine until I got to high school. I felt like I was doing something wrong because I didn't seem to fit in with other "Christians" (I say this in quotes not to denote that they weren't real Christians but that there seemed to be a certain way of acting, dressing, talking and all around just being that made everyone seem the same, and I didn't fit that mold). I continued going, made some friends and stuck it out. However, when my friends did not show up, it was one of the loneliest places I could imagine being.

After high school, I tried a couple of churches that were drastically different from my home church. The first was a Presbyterian church. I very much enjoyed the message, the pastor was very knowledgeable and the people seemed all around friendly. However, I was not accustomed to dressing up to go to church, and at the time, I didn't even own nice clothes. I was literally the only girl there wearing pants, and I also happened to be wearing flip flops (it was either those or tennis shoes). However, it was not the lack of lack dress wear that kept me from going back there, but the structured, formal atmosphere.

The next church I tried was almost the exact opposite. It was very informal, not so structured. The pastor had people pray in groups, which seemed odd to me, and being a very private person, I was uncomfortable praying for/being prayed for by complete strangers who know nothing about my life. Then, instead of a regular sermon that Sunday, we watched this (really strange) video. I don’t remember exactly what it was about, I just remember being really weirded out by it, and leaving with the feeling that I had walked into a cult or something. Something was just off about it.

So I gave up for while, and just went to church on the weekends I visited my parents. Most recently (it’s been about 3 years) I started attended a new church with a friend. I’ve been wavering on whether or not to continue going here, because I am really not enjoying it. It is HUGE. My home church is big, but I know people there, and I’m comfortable because it’s where I grew up. Going a massive church and not knowing anyone is terrifying. Seriously, every time I’m there I just want to run away. This last Sunday, we had a guest speaker who yelled for an hour about Jesus. I mean, really, seriously, YELLED. I don’t like people who yell, and I certainly don’t like being yelled at about something I already believe. I go to church to learn about how I can better my life, and to worship. I don’t go to church to be yelled at and made feel insignificant. I prefer a quiet, welcoming atmosphere in the company of a few friends, or just by myself. God, to me, is not a far away, yelling pastor behind an alter. I am a spiritual person, and I have moments when I experience God’s beauty and greatness, but those moments are seldom in church or structured setting. I guess my idea of religion is more abstract, less structured.
 
#32 ·
Sorry it is long. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately and I rambled. It could have been much longer.

I've always struggled with the church scene. This last Sunday, we had a guest speaker who yelled for an hour about Jesus. I mean, really, seriously, YELLED. I already believe. I go to church to learn about how I can better my life, and to worship. I don’t go to church to be yelled at and made feel insignificant.
I start with I'm a Christian or at least in between failings. on what you said,That's the problem with Christianity- it's all about the organised religion business. It feels like each sect tries to sell themselves as the unique/original thing. and it takes away the dignity and significance of it all. i think best would be to go with a non-denominational approach. get back to the roots. with that as a guide I'm going to say Jesus seldom yelled and when he did it was pure righteous anger, not pretence.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Anyone know how to tag people? *feels silly* :p

I think @InWonder and @Aelthwyn said it well. It's pretty much what I was getting at, but they expounded very nicely.

Also:
I actually quite envy people who have faith in a higher power, I think it must bring a sense of security and purpose.
But I just can't believe that there is one right religion and all the others are wrong.

So I'm quite happy to be labelled with that term that so many people hate - agnostic. :tongue:​
@Kittann , I appreciate the reply!

For me ... there's no way I can wrap my mind around the idea that there's NOT a higher power. I mean, I look at the stars and think of all those little pinpricks of light that are so much more massive than the whole planet I live on ... and I think about the complexity of the system that made things just right for life on this little, insignificant sphere. Then I think of the complexity of all the systems, systems within systems within systems ... to me there's no way that all that stuff could have happened without some "higher power" making it all happen.

I mean, we take a car. The intricacy of it is astounding ... no way it could have come together by a piece of metal thinking "I want to curve myself, and grow wheels and a sunroof," but a small part of any human or animal is so much more complex than that whole car ... I mean ... this is not my seminal essay on evolution or anything ... it's just - the sheer wonder with which I look at the world ... I just can't wrap my mind around anything other than that God created it.

From there to religion, I guess it comes down to - do you think that "higher power" wants us to realize that it was the one that created all this? If not, then we're good - but when we get down to morality and such ... I dunno. I'm not calling anybody stupid for not coming to the same conclusions as I did, I just think the whole system is a very convincing argument for theism in general, Christianity in specific.

Anyway, thanks again for posting! :)
Well said. Just thought I'd add a bit. Romans 1: 18-20 says, "But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he was made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." In other words, the existence of God is self-evident. On the other hand, Jesus did say in John 14:6 that, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through me." So, to address your view, @Kittann, which sounds to me like you believe that Christians believe that only our religion is right and others are wrong, is...a little off. We believe that the truth of God's existence is obvious, unless individuals suppress the truth that is intuitively known to them. So, in that sense, everyone *is* correct. However, some religions come closer to the Truth than others. What Jesus said in John 14:6 is quite clear; Jesus is the only way to Heaven. And here is where someone might ask: Well, what happens to people who have never heard about God? As mentioned, the existence of God/Truth is already known to mankind; they will be judged fairly according to what they knew and what they did with their knowledge. Moreover, it's worth emphasizing that once someone has heard of Christ, they can no longer plead ignorance. Sooner or later they *must* make a decision to accept him or not; putting off a decision is also a decision. Another question: where does your judgment and reasoning come from regarding the fact that you can't believe that there is only one right way and the others are wrong? Haven't you just used what is already known to you to say that it is wrong? Haven't you just made a one-way claim yourself? In case you're wondering, I'm not trying to attack you or single you out. Your post merely stood out to me the most; I may comment on others' later when I have more time.
 
#6 ·
I personally feel very cut off from other Christians most of the time. I'm only fourteen, so I'm still growing up, but I attended a private, Christian school for my entire life up until this year, where I am a freshman in a public High School. I'm about to be a bit frank, general, and a little stereotypical, but I've been surrounded by a ton of very judgmental people in terms of religion. I was quite dissatisfied when I was enrolled at my former school, because all the students were completely and utterly ignorant. They were all just very quick to point the finger at others while convinced that the way they and/or their parents have interpreted the Bible is set in stone and anyone who doesn't think the same way they do is going to hell. One of the most amusing personal philosophies I encountered by far was, "Obama is the Anti-Christ." The girl was completely serious in this belief.

Anyways, a majority of the Christians I know are not massively intelligent nor are they very open minded, and as INFP's, we are the exact opposite. Despite this, though, I have found a few really cool Christian friends who don't think that they're right about everything. It's just so sad, because I've found that I don't get along with a lot of other Christians, at least in my age group. Maybe things shall fare better as we age, but at this point, I've found that I generally get along better with Atheists.
 
#21 ·
Like, like, like, like, like, like, liiiiiiiiiiiiiike this comment!
 
#8 ·
I am a Christian. I grew up in a Christian home and went to Christian Shools all my life, but that isn't what makes me a Christian. I can understand why a lot of people become disillusioned with the church because of phoney people, bickering, judgmentalism, etc. It's really sooo sad to me.

I've never really liked going to church, well sometimes in the past, but overall not really. And I agree that this probably has a lot to do with being an INFP. I don't like big crowds or lots of noise. I dread being 'greeted' by strangers all around me at the beginning of the service. I don't feel very comfortable praying out loud in groups with strangers. And I dislike the way that not being comfortable with these things gets you labled as 'resisting the spirit' or some such nonsense. I've also disliked church because I am not a morning person. I hate having to stand there and I can't muster the energy to sing. I can't keep my mind focused to listen. It just doesn't work for me. And I'm sick of being told that "if you really loved God you'd be excited to be here" because I DO really love God, and believe me, this sunday morning routine was never prescribed by Him in the first place. It's a cultural thing. Worshiping God does not have to happen in this way. In fact I am MUCH more worshipfull when I go through a walk in nature, or contemplate things on my own. When I write in my prayre journal is when I pray the best, not when I'm holding hands in a circle of random people.

I've also found it hard to find a church where there is real depth to the messages. So many that I've visted seem to have the same sermon week after week, or they just don't take a very intellectual approach to anything, it's all just mushy feely stuff. I did like the church I grew up in where there were several pastors who took turns preaching and all of them were very focused on what the Bible actually said, looking at the historical context, the orriginal language, that kind of thing. It wasn't just 'devotional' stories about the pastror's life. Those can be good, but I've sat through so many shallow, disconnected, and just plain pointless sermons and Chaple services. I hate to say bad things about church and fellow Christians. I do believe that many are striving to be like Christ, but that doesn't mean they've all got it right. No, there are a lot of issues in Modern Christian Culture, and for the moment I'm not eager to keep striving to fit in with it (not that I ever really did).

I think for me another problem is the same problem that I have with all people - I'm just soooo out of the loop on popular culture anything, that I really have a hard time talking to and relating with most other people. I don't know, haven't seen, haven't heard, and don't enjoy the myriad of news, movies, shows, music, sports, celebrities, activities, games, and so on that other people are generally aware of an enjoy. Christian or not, I just have a hard time realting with people. However, I have found that sharing a love for God has helped me to get to know people that I never would have otherwise, and has helped me to experience deep conversations with people that I have little else in common with.

Personally I send little thoughts, smiles, requests, etc. to God throughout the day. Sometimes I hear Him answer in my mind, almost before I'm done arranging my thoughts. I believe it makes sense that there is a perfect God-creator, and I am constantly amazed by the complexity and beauty of the world. I feel He has showered mercy and love on my life and held me together when I wouldn't have been able to make it through on my own. I feel His presence when I am out among green trees and under the sweeping skies. He is real in my life, and a source of great hope, peace, and joy. My relationship with God is personal, and not something that I think anyone else can, or should judge, and I don't want to presume to judge the relationship of others with Him as well. It greives me that Christians have come to have a reputation for being judgemental, because of all people we ought to be the most forgiving and accepting and loving.

It's so sad to me that Christians have the reputation of being so conventional and so closed minded, because I don't think that's at all what God wants us to be. We should be creative, we should be seeking the truth (no insisting that we already know everything worth knowing), we should be curious to understand the world He made, and we of all people should be humble and realise that we can't know everything and are not always correct or even good.

It's very sad to me that so many people see Christianity as just following rituals and being part of a sundy morning club. How God has been worshiped, how His wisdom has been passed down has greatly differed across centuries and across nations, because it's not about the rituals, it's about a relationship, and about things that are beyond any one culture, love, forgiveness, wonder, humilty, and so on.

I have long wondered and asked God about being a missionary, but the answer kept coming back to me, that my place wasn't speaking to crowds, but communicating His love one-on-one to people near me, ministering to other Christians, and through close relationships with non-christians, not overseas, not in an organized group. I try to live out that love to others. I'm not always very good at it, but I try. I also like to pray for random people I see on the street, or whenever I hear a fire-engine or ambulance, I pray for those involved.

Although I have ideas about the world, life, God, heaven, etc. I am willing to admit that pretty much anything could possibly turn out to be wrong. I think I'm right, but who knows. I know I have limited understanding. I view philosophy and religion as stirring things to contemplate, but not something to get my ideas too adamantly stuck about. And I also believe that there is wisdom and truth to be found in authors and thinkers who do not believe in God or the Bible. I don't believe all other wisdom shoudl be shunned, but that we can find kernels of truth all over the place, and that through these we can help bring understanding, not division, between people.
 
#10 ·
What denomination do you identify with (if any)?

I was raised Baptist, but I don't associate with any particular denomination. To me, that feels like choosing a political party over the best-suited candidate, or something (though I understand it works for other people). However, to be honest, I don't really attend church much.

Do you feel isolated and martyr-ish because of your faith, or do you feel like it helps you to overcome some of your limitations?

I'm not really sure where this question was going. For one, I don't think my religion affects me much as a person, beyond affecting my sense of morality a little. It doesn't at all affect my social life; I have my beliefs, and my friends have theirs. If anywhere, it's in a religious setting that I stick out the most because I am not so traditional, but it doesn't bother me anymore than feeling socially awkward anywhere else.

How do you deal with sharing your faith (the Great Commission doesn't exactly say "INFP's, don't worry about this. You're good.")?

I'm trying to be honest (and sincere) with the people in my life, but I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat. I think that just pushes people away, especially because we (or I, anyway) live in a society in which most people know the basics of Christianity, even if they aren't one or didn't consider themselves one at some time. I think once people know what's out there, they really have to make their own decisions.

How do you deal with doubts/times of questioning?

I don't have an answer for this one. I do my questioning, I think about it... It can be disconcerting, but I think if you always come back to the same place, you know your faith is stronger than if you just accepted what people told you to believe and never thought about it for yourself.
 
#11 ·
I'm Christian. For a long time i was going to fairly conservative Presbyterian churches, which felt natural in some ways because their theology somewhat appeals to my intellectual side. However, i've never really been comfortable with the idolatry of theological "correctness", and frankly something about my open-endedness always seemed wrong there.

I'm currently attending a wonderful church in one of those non-denom chains that's actually pretty much a denom. Sometimes it confuses me a bit that they're so ad hoc in interpreting Scripture, but i'm also working through my own beliefs in Biblical inerrancy. Their practical theology (e.g. a racially and socioeconomically diverse congregation) seems to be more in line with Jesus than any church i've previously belonged to. And i'm in a marvelous small group that really meets my need to relate on a deep basis.
 
#12 ·
Wow - thank you everyone for your honest responses!

I don't have time to reply in-depth, but I'll be back on later tonight and answer my own questions (hate it when people ask a question and don't give their own thoughts on it). :p A lot of thoughts here I've definitely had before, and I'm glad I'm not the only one!
 
#13 ·
What denomination do you identify with (if any)?

I'm a christian catholic.


Do you feel isolated and martyr-ish because of your faith, or do you feel like it helps you to overcome some of your limitations?

Sometimes I do feel like I'm a bit different. I wouldn't go to the point of saying that I feel like a martyr... it depends on how you deal with your faith in the world (e.g. : at college). At difficult times it can be relieving to trust God. So nah no major problems.

How do you deal with sharing your faith (the Great Commission doesn't exactly say "INFP's, don't worry about this. You're good.")?

I dunno the subject comes with friends and I share it.


How do you deal with doubts/times of questioning?


At hard times, never make a decision, someone told me. I usually just let time flow and nature do its biddings.
 
#14 ·
Kay - I'm gonna get around to answering y'all's posts, but first let me answer my own questions as honestly as all of you have.

What denomination do you identify with (if any)?

First of all, I'm definitely a protestant. I've only ever been affiliated with non-denominational churches and charismatic denominations. I have, however, attended ... well, I can't even count how many different denominations' services I've attended. Lots of them. Big churches, mid-size churches, small churches, word-of-faith vs. uber-Baptist, donuts in service vs. black-tie Sundays. I find I identify best with the more charismatic denominations because they don't try to shut down the emotional side of Christianity. To be clear, none of the churches I've ever attended for a long period of time handled snakes or had people swinging from the chandelier (well ... I don't think anyone ever swung from the chandeliers). :p To me, embracing the emotional side of faith is beneficial, if not absolutely critical. That said, especially in my larger church experiences, a large group of charismatic people can be a bit intimidating for an INFP, and I frequently found myself retreating to the fringes of the group. The passion I admire - the outward enthusiasm ... well, yeah.

I currently attend a Calvary Chapel, which is somewhat "charismatic," in that they encourage raising hands in worship, exercising spiritual gifts (including laying-on-of-hands and speaking in tongues as long as it's done "decently and in order"). The church isn't very big either - a few hundred on Sunday mornings, and there's a good Bible study group I've found too.

Do you feel isolated and martyr-ish because of your faith, or do you feel like it helps you to overcome some of your limitations?

I'm going to answer this with a definite yes. Wait ... yes to which? Both, I guess. I know I've definitely let myself retreat into the "no one understands me," and I'll tell you, when times get like that, even when I'm not facing anything near the persecution that early Christians or third-world Christians suffer, 2 Corinthians 4:8-11 often comes to mind. "We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh."

But even knowing my tendency to feel persecuted for my faith (taking personally attacks that are more generally hurled at Christ or Christians in general), I also have noticed occasions where my faith in Christ has helped me to overcome certain things that (being an INFP) should normally be bigger problems. I'll say I've rarely had problems forgiving people. For anything. I don't hold grudges, that's just the way it is. Also, on occasions where things have just been crashing down, and I've felt like I'm drowning, I'm convinced it's that faith that has helped me retain some semblance of optimism that, like Romans 8:28 says, all things work together for those who love God.

How do you deal with sharing your faith (the Great Commission doesn't exactly say "INFP's, don't worry about this. You're good.")?

This is a little bit of a tuffy for me, because I know this is an area of weakness. As it takes me a while to warm up to people enough to talk to them honestly and deeply (in person, anyway), the thought of classic "street witnessing" has always tied my stomach in knots. Not that that's the only way to share Christ with people. But lest I use that as an excuse, I find that when I've befriended someone well enough to be comfortable talking deeply, the non-confrontational side of me comes in to play, and I feel like I need to let the other person bring up the subject if they want to talk about it. *sigh*

How do you deal with doubts/times of questioning?

This one is really interesting, and I can't really answer it well because there's so much I want to say, but I know when I say it it won't end up like I'm thinking it, and it'll be all over the place.

I will say, though, that I absolutely have some very intense times of questioning and doubt. Sometimes it's questioning like Job did (along the lines of "why on earth is this happening to me?!?!?"). Sometimes it's doubting that God will come through in a particular circumstance or just being unsure of who He really is (Matthew 8:23-27). Then, sometimes it's direct doubting, like Thomas (John 20), that the resurrection even happened. I believe all of these times of questions have made me even stronger in my faith (how, I don't exactly know) - but it's a bit of a comfort to know that even those who were with Christ while He was physically with them, had the same issues with their faith that I do. I always come back to John 20:29 -- "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed," and Mark 9:24 -- "I believe; help my unbelief!"

So ... yeah, that's me.
 
#15 ·
@En79, agree about denominations! I don't like being "a Baptist," "a Pentecostal," even "a non-denominational." I'm a Christian who attends whatever church (in my case it's a Calvary Chapel). As far as attending church in general, I absolutely know where you're coming from. I went through periods where I had the same feelings about church - thankfully, I never did stop attending, and I was finally able to find a church or two where I actually felt comfortable with the people, or at least had a little corner where I could feel like I was doing the church some good without being all social butterfly. Worship teams (yeah, I'm musical) and children's ministry are my two niches.

From my perspective, church isn't something that you absolutely have to do - but it's definitely something that's beneficial. As far as hearing sermons that aren't necessarily the kind of thing you need to hear right at this moment, that's why I like my church. We don't do the random, pastor has a thought and works his sermon around it. The pastor preaches verse-by-verse through a particular book of the Bible, and lets the word of God do the talking. I mean, he'll do some exposition and pointing out themes and such, but the essence of the thought is that the word goes out and doesn't return without accomplishing its purpose. It may not be something that's particularly convicting for everyone in the audience, but I was surprised to find how often a passage I had never given a lot of thought to before would touch something and give me a different perspective - or outright convict me of something I hadn't (or had) seen in myself before.

I also completely relate on the other points. I LOVE C.S. Lewis's apologetic style, but like you, most of my friends are going to believe the same thing (at least generally) that I do, because those are the people I most associate with. In that case, apologetics is a pretty academic field - not too practical.

As for your last paragraph, I'm p.m.-ing you a link to my church's web site. My pastor has been going through Ecclesiastes, and touched on some of the very points you brought up - the main point being that life "Under the sun," as Solomon says, is absolutely meaningless - it's life under the "Son" that gives it meaning (maybe you don't like that wordplay :p, but if you feel like it, give it a listen!).
 
#16 ·
@ii V I, I'd have to say I disagree on some of your points, but I absolutely agree that getting "shot up with a bad strain of faith" can be absolutely catastrophic.

One of the churches I went to in my early life had some VERY questionable theology, and did some bad things to people I love very much. There have been times when ... I wouldn't say I didn't believe in God ... I just didn't know WHAT I believed about Him.

As far as Jesus having been "pretty awesome," I absolutely agree, but I just don't think we can stop with that. If He was pretty awesome and He claimed to be God ... my thought (as others have said MUCH more eloquently) is that if He wasn't God, that negates his awesomeness. If He said great things, but lied on that pretty major point ... I just don't see how we can take Him seriously at all. In essence, He misled billions of people throughout the years, who have then misled more and more ... and a huge portion of the world is massively deceived because Jesus lied. Anyway, that's my take on it.

But back to your experience, it reminds me of one of my favorite poems by Lord Byron ... I think it's called "The Prayer of Nature."

I don't have it in front of me, but a few phrases I remember are "No shrine I seek to sects unknown, Thy laws in natures works appear ..." and "Shall man confine his Maker's way to gothic domes of mouldering stone? Thy temple is the face of day, earth, ocean, heaven Thy boundless throne."

I absolutely believe the Bible is God's word, and I'm a fairly "fundamentalist" Christian, but there has been a LOT of damage done to people when, as Byron said again, "priests, to spread their sable reign, with tales of mystic rites beguile."
 
#17 ·
@InWonder,

Mind my asking what denomination the church you're going to now is? That's just my academic curiosity. :)

This is part of why I can't stand denominations, but part of why I realize the value of them. Everyone doesn't learn well in the same atmosphere. All those churches you talk about sound like places I wouldn't be comfortable at.

For me: Baptist churches are too academic - not emotional enough. The Methodist churches I've been to are generally older people, and pretty shallow - plus, no contemporary worship. Pentecostal ... the pastor was very emotional (good thing), but not critical enough of what he said or how he handled situations (bad thing). Presbyterian - a little more formal than I care for, but I went to one that was a good mix - theologically I disagree with them on some things. Catholic - definitely no - too many theological discrepancies, but the people are nice. Non-denominational churches ... it's hit or miss, really.

I've found a good home at a Calvary Chapel (see other comments). The pastor preaches straight out of the Bible, but it's still more "Charismatic" than a Baptist church. The worship is modern, but we'll do hymns every now and then. Plus, it's not a big church.

I definitely recommend finding a good church home - though I know the search can be tedious. :p

For me, if I have "criteria" for finding a church, I would hope the worship is genuine, the pastor backs up everything he says from the Word, and the people aren't opposed to "outsiders." I don't care for huge churches, but some I've been to haven't been that bad - easy to get lost in the mix, but the people you do end up around are friendly and genuine.

I dunno what you should do in your case. Going to a church that doesn't help you grow ... there's not much good about that. But not going to church at all, I believe, can be just as detrimental. I say pray about it and keep looking - hope you find something where you're able to both give and take, and where God speaks to you in a way you understand and can benefit from! :)
 
#18 ·
@Kittann, I appreciate the reply!

For me ... there's no way I can wrap my mind around the idea that there's NOT a higher power. I mean, I look at the stars and think of all those little pinpricks of light that are so much more massive than the whole planet I live on ... and I think about the complexity of the system that made things just right for life on this little, insignificant sphere. Then I think of the complexity of all the systems, systems within systems within systems ... to me there's no way that all that stuff could have happened without some "higher power" making it all happen.

I mean, we take a car. The intricacy of it is astounding ... no way it could have come together by a piece of metal thinking "I want to curve myself, and grow wheels and a sunroof," but a small part of any human or animal is so much more complex than that whole car ... I mean ... this is not my seminal essay on evolution or anything ... it's just - the sheer wonder with which I look at the world ... I just can't wrap my mind around anything other than that God created it.

From there to religion, I guess it comes down to - do you think that "higher power" wants us to realize that it was the one that created all this? If not, then we're good - but when we get down to morality and such ... I dunno. I'm not calling anybody stupid for not coming to the same conclusions as I did, I just think the whole system is a very convincing argument for theism in general, Christianity in specific.

Anyway, thanks again for posting! :)
 
#19 ·
I can't be anything else but agnostic. I respect everyone's beliefs but I draw the line when people use their religion to condone violence and hatred. As Mr. Horse would say: "No sir, I don't like it."
 
#20 ·
@fizzygirl,

Thanks for that openness. I roll my eyes at the "Obama is the Anti-Christ" thing too.

I don't know about most Christians not being intelligent, but I think sometimes we mistake steadfastness or strong faith with closed-mindedness.

As far as getting along with atheists, maybe my experience has been the opposite of yours. :p I've found a good amount of atheists who are more "militant," if you will, than the Christians I know. I think lots of this just has to do with the people we are forced into contact with - it's not necessarily the environment we would choose to be brought up in, but we don't get a lot of say in it.

I think it's a sad reflection on Christianity that, like you point out, we have so much infighting over some particular point of theology (I'm all for interpreting the Bible correctly, but on some issues, there's room for difference of opinion). Like, to assume that, because you put more value on the sovereignty of God, whereas I emphasize the freewill of man, one of us is going to be punished eternally for believing differently on a very deep, complex subject ... it's just said.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." That's not debatable for a Christian. But when we put as much emphasis on the minutiae of our theology as we do on the one basic tenet of our salvation ... I understand why you're so disillusioned, and I'm sorry the Christian community has done such a bad job of representing Christ.
 
#22 ·
Christian here. I used to go to chruch regularly for mass and sunday school but as I started to disagree with the teaching of my church more I started to draw away from it. I tried to find other churches from any denomination that would feel like home to me but no luck so far. It doesn't much bother me (I just miss the carols).
How do you deal with sharing your faith ?
The way I see it the thing that matters is how you act and feel. You don't have to call yourself a Christian to be one. If my actions are what they should be people will "see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven," even if they don't word it like that. By their fruits you shall know them.
It helps set a standard for my actions which I am still trying to reach.
 
#25 ·
I consider myself a Christian, though many would not, but that's fine.

Jesus is an example to follow. He died because he was a threat to the Roman establishment not to forgive people's sins. My view of Jesus is similar to that of the Buddha, a wise man who had an experience of the divine, or god, or the absolute, and various other terms it could be called, and then tried to share that with others.

The Bible is an anthology of various individual's thoughts and experiences of god, the world, the spirit, and has a lot to offer, but it is certainly not the infallible or inerrant word of god.

Most of the Christian Church today whether protestant, catholic, or orthodox, I don't believe really is in the spirit of Jesus teachings or that of the early church. Many have commented how the early church was persecuted yet the church today is mostly left alone. In my mind there's a very simple reason for this. Jesus and his early followers were radicals, they were extremists. What they did and what they said make a big difference in people's lives. It affected society. It threatened the establishment. They had to be eliminated. And they were. Most of the early Christian groups and their teachings were wiped out. Only one, what became the orthodox faith, gained the support of the government, as the orthodox faith was, far from a threat, actually a help to the establishment.

While I've never doubted Jesus existence or the power of his teachings, it's clear that many stories about him were adopted from other religions and philosophies.

What's frustrating to me is that some who can point out holes in the Bible therefore doubt the existence of God or put their trust solely in science. But that really makes no sense. Whether the Bible is completely true or completely made up is irrelevant for determining the existence of God.

Christianity has always been a big part of my life and it probably always will be. I was in the Church from my earliest years then in Christian school and college, learning quite orthodox theology and doctrine. Obviously my views have changed as I have a growing interest in eastern religions as well as gnostic and esoteric Christianity.

However, I don't these are the real reasons I stopped going to church. During college, church just started to seem utterly irrelevant.
Also the Church has lost its way both intellectually and aesthetically. Much of what passes for Christian thought or art today is quite simply, embarrassing. The evangelical Church, which is where I grew up is the worst offender, constantly churning out third rate books and music.

I feel strange in a way even talking about this as my religious or spiritual views are often uncertain and indeterminate. I feel out of place amongst both the religious and the secular. I don't believe in evolution. I also don't believe in creation. There is a god, but I really can't tell you anything about him.
 
#26 ·
@En79, if you put the @ symbol, then the person's name, that'll tag them, and go in as a "mention" in their notifications.

As for your point, well said.

I didn't exactly see this thread turning into an apologetic, but I don't have a problem with intelligent debate, as long as @roxy said, it doesn't turn into a yell-fest. I mean ... I couldn't stop it if it did, and I have no problem at all with what you posted. It was to the point, respectful and logical (at least I think so). :)

Still, if we wanted to have a knock-down-drag-out debate, where exactly would one go about posting such a thread? Even INFPs want to hash it out about things they believe in strongly (especially those of us with strong T tendencies).
 
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#27 ·
@Aelthwyn - I wanted to reply to this earlier, but can't straighten out my thoughts on all of it.

I think in every one of your points there's something that strikes a chord with me. I come from a large family and none of them (well, perhaps one) are INFPs. Most certainly aren't, and while we are very close and understand a lot of things about each other, I sometimes got the "you must not be strong in your spiritual walk because you don't care for church."

I, like you, am not really a morning person, and massive groups of people tire me out. A few churches I've been to have been very large by normal standards, and it always was a chore to motivate myself to go to church in the morning. I would usually settle into it once I was awake, and I didn't hate church (well, not normally anyway), but I wasn't very enthusiastic.

Even now, going to a smaller church I absolutely love, getting up in the morning is not my favorite activity, and I don't do tons of socializing until after the service when I'm awake, and can get with my group of friends.

As for the sermons, you're spot on too, at least in my experience. Some churches have no methodology as to the sermons (and heck, I'm a P, I can appreciate that!), but that too often lends itself to complete randomness and hit-or-miss sermons that might mean nothing to the majority of the congregation. I'm at a church right now that preaches verse-by-verse, book-by-book. The pastor points out common themes, and of course emphasizes some points perhaps to the exclusion of others, but in general, it's a very balanced way to preach that isn't contingent upon a whim that may or may not be relevant at all.

Aelthwyn said:
Personally I send little thoughts, smiles, requests, etc. to God throughout the day. Sometimes I hear Him answer in my mind, almost before I'm done arranging my thoughts. I believe it makes sense that there is a perfect God-creator, and I am constantly amazed by the complexity and beauty of the world. I feel He has showered mercy and love on my life and held me together when I wouldn't have been able to make it through on my own. I feel His presence when I am out among green trees and under the sweeping skies. He is real in my life, and a source of great hope, peace, and joy.
That was beautiful, and I've often said the same. People ask about my "prayer life." Well, in some ways it's thriving, and in some ways it's lacking.

It's not lacking, however, based on sheer volume of "prayers." My thoughts are constantly on God, either thanking Him for the songbirds or the mountains or the stars or the waterfalls, or asking for His guidance in a certain situation, or for patience dealing with a difficult person.

Still, I finally realized the lifestyle of thankfulness and instant-prayers shouldn't be a substitute for those designated periods of quiet time - both speaking and listening. They should complement each other. I'm the first to admit that I, like the disciples in the garden of Gethsemane wouldn't have been able to wait and pray, "even for one hour." But I think that there is value to just taking time to listen and to have some concentrated "me and God" time with the phone off, a Bible handy and the knowledge that, perhaps if I drift off, maybe He'll speak to me in my dreams.

As for disillusionment with "conventional" and "closed-minded" Christians, I think that's our INFP speaking. Some people need to live by conventions and rules - and I think sometimes those of us who are more whimsical could benefit from some of those conventions and rules. NOT that we have to like it :p ... just that sometimes our railing against rules, conventions and closed-mindedness can just be a front for our unwillingness to submit to ... well, anything.

I absolutely believe that Christians (like other people) can get stuck in a rut, where anything that disturbs their system is looked on as a threat, even "evil." But there are also those of us who are too quick to decry a "system" just because it goes against our (perhaps prideful) wish not to be constrained.

I don't know ... I definitely won't claim to know everything, so take anything I say, measure it up against your own experience and God's Word. I just wanted to say your post especially resonated with me.

Thanks for your input. :)
 
#28 ·
When I was younger I used to go to a Congregationalist church which was pretty cool I guess. I'm pretty sure that's one of the more lenient forms of Christianity, or at least my church was really lenient. I've always been spiritual, even when I was a little kid. When I got older I started disagreeing with some of the views of Christianity. I didn't like that only people who believed in god were allowed into heaven or that some denominations didn't respect gay people, among other things. I was atheist for a while, through middle school and most of high school. But that just made me bored and depressed so I started looking for religions that I agreed with more. I got into Buddhism for a while, then a few others, until I finally realized I didn't need a religion to still be a spiritual person. I can feel a certain way about something without having to follow a bunch of rules (I'm not very good at that). I agree with @ii V I, Jesus was a really great guy and more people should be like him. And I totally respect Christians and people of any other faith, so long as they're not trying to push their views on me or interfere with my life in any way. And I really hope no one takes offense to this, really I love you all!!!
 
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