[niki]

I am really inspired by this awesome, catalystic thread (thanks to the OP!) to create this new thread, and see what you all think about this:

Have any of you ever heard of The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM) ?
and watched the very recent widely-successful independent-thearetical worldwide release of their movie Zeitgeist: Moving Forward?
You can watch it for free. The movie/documentary is about 3 hours long, but I have to say that at the very least it's really worth it to listen to what all these group of scientists, thinkers, and many other expertises have to say about why our current world today is so bloody messed-up (ie: "there's something HUGELY terribly wrong happening now" feeling/instincts we all have), and their proposed solutions.

It does really open my eyes, and I'm now even joining the Movement (surprisingly this is a huge undergoing global, worldwide one, with many "local movements" in each part of the planet. the ball seems to start rolling!)
Seems to be a damn better solution than doing nothing at all under our current corrupted "System".



Here's the movie/documentary:


and for more detailed introductions, explanations on "what", "how-to", plans etc etc, you can just go to their official website here:
The Zeitgeist Movement

“History shows us that the people who end up changing the world – the great political, social, scientific, technological, artistic, even sports revolutionaries – are always nuts, until they are right, and then they are geniuses.” - John Eliot

[glisten]

I have watched the beginning before, but have never actually watched all three hours of it. It's extremely interesting, but it's just hard for me to sit still and watch something for that long. Maybe I'll break it up into segments and watch all of it eventually, because I do keep hearing how great it is.

[Ecky]

Thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten about the third movie coming out. I found the first two to be very thought-provoking.

[Seven]

I like that this part is less about conspiracy theories but focuses on the Venus project and human nature. It makes my blood boil when people say "oh it's just the way people are" to justify the crap that they do, so it was nice to see that it's really just a convenient cop out. It was a bit cheesy at times, but I mostly liked it. So much of the population is suffering, and for what, nothing.

[Aelthwyn]

I watched the first one, but wasn't aware of any more, so thanks! I agree this is very interesting, both sad and encouraging at the same time. I'll probably have to watch it in segments as mentioned, but I agree it's worth watching. It's encouraging to know that I'm not the only one saying there's a lot wrong with the world - and to see that people who are better about doing things are putting a lot more thought into it!

[sgman]

I don't know about the movie, since I haven't seen it, but the movement itself, The Zeitgeist Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, I do not agree with, and to be honest, find a little nutty.

My biggest beef with it is it is too unclear about the solution. It wants to do away with capitalism, but the alternative it proposes appears to be a new take on communism. "Free access?" "Private property obsolete?" I see the same problem with it that communism encountered and failed to solve. Who's going to allocate? Who's going to keep these "allocators" in check, i.e. prevent corruption?

It says decision-making will be done away with, and instead replaced by completely rational machines. What is this - 1984? Who's going to program the machines? How would you program something to be "rational" when we ourselves are highly irrational beings?

Apparently they also have chapters in cities. Church of Scientology for the new century?

[gravitycantforget]

I don't know about the movie, since I haven't seen it, but the movement itself, The Zeitgeist Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, I do not agree with, and to be honest, find a little nutty.

My biggest beef with it is it is too unclear about the solution. It wants to do away with capitalism, but the alternative it proposes appears to be a new take on communism. "Free access?" "Private property obsolete?" I see the same problem with it that communism encountered and failed to solve. Who's going to allocate? Who's going to keep these "allocators" in check, i.e. prevent corruption?

It says decision-making will be done away with, and instead replaced by completely rational machines. What is this - 1984? Who's going to program the machines? How would you program something to be "rational" when we ourselves are highly irrational beings?

Apparently they also have chapters in cities. Church of Scientology for the new century?

capitalism basically exists because of work...we need to disinvent work. Think that work has always been around ... think again. The move from hunter gatherers to fixed location agriculture started the modern concept of work - throw in the downscaling of bartering and the move to money you have modern life...probably with a little application and a lot of bravery NO ONE would have to work again - technology should be freeing us not making us slaves. We also need to move from economies based on scarcity to those based on abundance. Instead TPTB have us all scavenging around fighting for scraps...at the moment I would say capitalism is fucked in the head. Anything which leads people to think and consider alternatives IS a good thing

communism like many ideas CAN work in small environments

capitalism can work too...

what makes me laugh is people like Bill Gates getting all these billionaires to pledge giving away significant portions of money when they die...err...whats wrong with them doing it NOW?

[annabelle_lee]

I've only seen the first movie, and I really dug it. I should really take a peek at the other ones...

Some of the stuff I'm really not sure about... for instance, I don't know crap about the whole banking system thing. But religion? I definitely agreed with the movie saying how most major religions are basically all the same and how harmful they can be. And I do think 9/11 was an inside job.

Just my 2 bits.

[Listener]

I've seen all three movies. The most recent is the best, but they're all worth seeing.

The more I've thought about and researched the issues discussed in these movies, the more my own views have come to mirror those of the movie.

The monetary/market system essentially guarantees mass unemployment and eventual collapse. Either you can accept millions of people starving to death, or things have to change. There's no way around that.

I voted for Nader in 2004 and 2008, and briefly worked for the campaign in 2008. He's right that corporations have undue influence over the government and over people's lives. Corporations are not persons and do not have rights. But that's not enough.

Richard C Cook, and others, have developed various systems of a guaranteed income for all, regardless of employment, that does not involve taking money from others or causing inflation. This is better, but still leaves all sorts of problems.

I then began investigating anarchism, and found myself feeling most comfortable about the middle of the road with the Mutualists. Traditional concepts of ownership should not apply to some things, the most important being land. We already accept that air should not be for sale.

But I think only the Zeitgeist/Venus Project really gets to the heart of the matter. Money is the root of the problem. Governments, corporations, war, poverty, etc, to very great extent are the results of the money/market system.

There are a lot of political leaders and movements that I respect and have been important to me, but none that I've seen have really gone to the heart of the matter in the way Zeitgeist/Venus does.

[Ecky]

One small bone I have to pick with the movie is their implication of planned obsolescence in computer hardware. I accept that it might be practiced in other areas, but computers are more often discarded when they are no longer *wanted*, than when they break down. In areas of rapid development and improvement, I think there is little you can do about waste.