Do you believe there is an all divine creator, or are we just the product of randomness? What is the evidence for what you believe? I'm not looking for a debate. I want to hear your perspective.
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This is a discussion on Is There evidence For God? within the INFP Forum - The Idealists forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Do you believe there is an all divine creator, or are we just the product of randomness? What is the ...
Do you believe there is an all divine creator, or are we just the product of randomness? What is the evidence for what you believe? I'm not looking for a debate. I want to hear your perspective.
Sometimes I think that the universe has a certain intelligence to it, that it has some sort of plan for everything that happens. But then I remember how chaotic the universe really is and how ridiculous it is that our little planet is able to survive and exist as it has for the past few Millennium, so I'm not really sure.
I think there is a creator, but not so sure about the whole Christian God thing...
There's certainly no evidence to go against it.
I do not believe in God though, im perhaps not really qualified to determine such a belief since I have not read through the bible but I think it's be rather difficult as some of it seems very dry. I guess I have a few silly reasons and just thoughts as to why.
Firstly my influence to believe in God wasn't very dominating like some families, my father was raised a Catholic but isn't really a practiced Catholic as are my sister's who were baptized. My mother is currently a Jehovah's witness and has it in mind that the end of the world is around the corner.
I first am distanced by religion by extremists I do admit i was naive as many people are that the fundamentalist Christians and the extremes of any religion do not do their faith any justice and are in fact rather not aligned with the values of their religion often as proven by some of their actions. I do believe most religions to be good natured, John Cleese had a good thought that the main people within religions like Jesus are very intelligent and very intelligent people often speak metaphorically and some people lose the meaning of what was said by taking it literally.
I also had the simple thought of how from how much we knew in the past we imagined God or Gods often to be in the sky or clouds. I wonder how true it is that this is described in very old art or if the cloud thing is rather recent or completely wrong considering we now know theres space and a friggin' lot of it.
Another thing and probably the biggest reason that i'm very suspect of the validity of religion is that there are so many. When someone says I believe I can't help but think that theres so many beliefs that are purely to accommodate ones own subjective view of the world. Some people pick and choose parts of each faith to suit themselves. Even if we all followed religion down to the letter there are so many gods depicted across the globe. There are major religions with huge followings but I dont see them as any different than some of the mythological gods in the past. Every culture seems to have some sense of spirituality but all different with gods related to the sun and nature of death and other natural aspects of being human.
So it comes to me that religion is man made in every sense, tailored to a kind of morality that gives people a sort of barrier to their suffering. For every drama they relate back to God or other lose faith and condemn their God for not doing everything for them.
The saying that god helps those that help themselves make me laugh because basically that means its all on you even if he is real.
I often get conflicted with the depiction of some God/s. One side people talk about a relationship or bond with God, this confuses me in that relationships are give and take so in their mind almost everything in their life revolves around God doing things for them other wise its not a fruitful relationship. One side talks about a forgiving loving God but then get confused with that theres people who get so riled up and become a Us and Them thing and they go with an unhealthy human nature in destroying one another, that God punished a lot of unbelievers with massive natural disasters which to me doesn't appear as a loving God as it comes off to me as you have free will but disobey me and i'll kill you.
I have then been told wonderful thoughts of God being outside the morality of man which did make sense since him but I thought well why serve to the morality and rulings of a God that is beyond our morality. We know theres 5 morals that come with every new born child. So I rather tried and question and understand right and wrong in terms of whats here than trying to use a holy book. I dislike theres things like dogma which are the unquestionable parts when i believe everything is up for critique , thats how we learn. I prefer the man who questions his morality each day than the man who feels that he's doing the right thing always.
I dislike those judgemental people who condemn behaviours as you're going to hell, they have no ruling over who goes where and its shaming which isnt healthy to people. I dislike the control of some hiding behind their religious facade. I like the people who really are saint like in their behaviour and wonderful loving people.
I also find the idea of a life after this life a bit trivial, that we are to be tested first. This the like the beta game play test. I dislike that there are people who lack the cues in their mind to behave properly or were abused and grew up to be bad people and thus are to be punished, this seems to me to identify with a more justice obsessed morality which I dislike. God whether he's real or not doesn't affect how I intend to live my life, if he is real well I havent much say in how he operates. I try to be a good person as I can and im constantly working on myself, I dont want to live a life in preparation for the after life, enjoy this one as I believe its the only privilege we get and then it's over.
I would add that im not as educated in religion as many other would be, perhaps alter in life with a spiritual crisis i'll look for such answers.
Does a personal experience count as evidence?
Well, I'm more of a scientist, so I tend to believe in the current theories of how things exist, which isn't entirely random, just lots of things happening/interacting with each other, all at once. Sometimes colliding/stopping out of the blue, sometimes patterned, like a chain reaction; Some sort of mixture of order and chaos, if you will. (Hope this link helps get to what I mean: Surprising relationship between chaos, order )
I'm not sure if there is a deity, or deities, out there, but if there are, we don't have the means to prove or disprove of its/their existence, at least not in this lifetime.
The only evidence I need is from having some encounters that I would consider Divine.
This was enough proof for me as I then had an inner 'knowing', no matter how crazy it seems to others.
I don't have the time right now to write a unique reply to you in regards to this specific question but I've just expressed my point of view on another website and I'm guessing that, if you've never read it before, you might be interested in it, so here you go:
Basically, yes, by out-stepping the current known limits of science, you can predict the past or future development of a god but it'd definitely be deistic in nature and have absolutely nothing to do with the arbitrary religions I've heard about throughout the years.
Strictly scientifically speaking, due to the nature of thermodynamics, no, the existence of a godlike entity isn't possible or necessary.
Look for "Gee" -- that's me.
Why does humanity aim for an idealized impossible utopia? - Yahoo! Answers
Should quantum immortality be the bare minimum for a materialist? - Yahoo! Answers
One thing's for sure: whether deities could possibly exist or not, we have a lot of work to do if we aspire to provide a decent living standard for all living beings. :P
My argument has always been that beliefs don't matter.
You could believe that the world is flat, or that there is some crazy guy throwing lightning bolts around in the sky.
What matters is your actions as a person.
Ultimately if I died and there was a God and a Heaven and Hell, I don't see why me not believing such a place existed should deny me from paradise. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong with sufficient evidence.
If I lived a good life and I brought joy and happiness to others then ultimately that's what matters right?
If not then that religion would be a lie. Their God not being something worth believing in if he flat out rejects good people because they didn't believe on him or felt they needed him.
Intact that God would be a total asshole really! XD
So yeah. I'm in the boat of the whole trying to prove or disprove being ultimately pointless when we should be just getting on with our lives and should be putting that that time and resources into making our short lives as enjoyable and meaningful as possible.
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