[tangosthenes]

So, I don't quite get this, so I'd like to get it from the horse's mouth.

So in the two parts of Feeling:
Fe is about deriving satisfaction from other people's enjoyment, right?
Fi is about deriving satisfaction from your own enjoyment, right?



Why are Fi doms and auxes seen to encourage others to be themselves(basically, to do what they want) while Fe doms and auxes are seen typically to expect others to conform to their others? I don't get it.
-and-
So F types are supposed to care about harmony, it seems like Fe would care more about everybody's harmony while Fi would care most about their own feelings of harmony. Aka Fi dom creates an atmosphere, Fe dom ensures it.
But in practice it seems to be the opposite, Fe doms seem to push others to act a certain way, counteracting their original goal of keeping people happy, and Fi doms seem to encourage others to do whatever, counteracting their goal of keeping their harmony from being interrupted by allowing the possibility that the others' want may run counter to the Fi dom.


So, my question specifically for INFPs, is, do you care whether or not people are themselves, or do you only care about whether you are being yourself or not? And in certain situations, do you think there are times where you agree with an Fe dom/aux's judgement when both are giving advice to one person about something or acting in the same situation?

[Mitsuko]

A.] So in the two parts of Feeling:
Fe is about deriving satisfaction from other people's enjoyment, right?
Fi is about deriving satisfaction from your own enjoyment, right?

B.] Why are Fi doms and auxes seen to encourage others to be themselves(basically, to do what they want) while Fe doms and auxes are seen typically to expect others to conform to their others? I don't get it.

C.] Aka Fi dom creates an atmosphere, Fe dom ensures it.

D.] But in practice it seems to be the opposite, Fe doms seem to push others to act a certain way, counteracting their original goal of keeping people happy, and Fi doms seem to encourage others to do whatever, counteracting their goal of keeping their harmony from being interrupted by allowing the possibility that the others' want may run counter to the Fi dom.

E.] So, my question specifically for INFPs, is, do you care whether or not people are themselves, or do you only care about whether you are being yourself or not? And in certain situations, do you think there are times where you agree with an Fe dom/aux's judgement when both are giving advice to one person about something or acting in the same situation?

A.] I can't negate this... it sounds about right, from my understanding.

B.] Fi rules on the user's terms. They like it when other people [are able to] follow their OWN [true] paths, and their own [true] ways.
Fe expect people to conform, based on using the "right behaviour under the right circumstance." They like it when others use [a set of particular?] behaviours that fit the situation, to promote such-and-such view of harmony.

C.] I like this line; I hope it proves to be accurate. Simple, and to the point. :D

D.] I think this is more the extreme parts of F-doms; that is, extreme in type or just unhealthy.
-When everyone is acting in a way that is appropriate for the situation, everything can run smoothly, and no one gets hurt (provided everyone has the same perspective). This is Fe.
-When everyone is working according to their sense of harmony, the idea is that all the harmony of all the individuals will coalesce into a situation's harmony. This is Fi.

E.] I care about other's harmony; it's just that if I can't control my own harmony, I shouldn't try to help others. In some cases, I am unable to care about other people- but that's more unhealthy behaviour, resulting from depression or something similar.
(Inner consistency ---> outer consistency).
Fe certainly has its merits and application, it is simply not within my active use. But YES, there are definitely situations where Fe, or Te for that matter, should override Fi's guidance. Sometimes one approach is not part of a better way to handle things.

[emerald sea]

it's harmony/peace but it's also good feelings.

Fe is like a thermostat that senses the ambient emotional temperature, and modifies its behavior whenever that temperature deviates from the setpoint on the dial (which is 'positive, comforting feelings' in others and 'interpersonal harmony') in a way that is intended to achieve that setpoint.

Fi is like a conscience that holds a person to a subjective standard of 'my core identity,' 'my values,' and 'the way life should be lived.' so everything is automatically compared against that standard, and the conscience registers and starts producing very uncomfortable feelings if that standard is violated. an Fi user is concerned about being at peace with himself/herself internally - so anything that promotes internal harmony is accepted, and that which disrupts peace is rejected.

on the surface, Fe and Fi at times can appear similar. this is because Fe and Fi can (it depends on the Fi user, since values are subjectively defined by each Fi user) share similar values/codes of conduct. for instance, an Fi user may value how others feel or believe that others should be treated with respect, therefore can experience it as an internal violation when others are hurt or treated badly, and respond to make others feel better, because doing so is in line with their values. but internally, the two are not the same. Fe's sensor is attuned most to external feelings, while Fi's sensor is attuned most to internal feelings. the ultimate motive behind the behavior is different (where the violation is felt - against the interior self, or against others - and where the individual most and first desires to restore peace and good feeling - internally or externally), even if the behavior is the same.

[tangosthenes]

it's harmony/peace but it's also good feelings.

Fe is like a thermostat that senses the ambient emotional temperature, and modifies its behavior whenever that temperature deviates from the setpoint on the dial (which is 'positive, comforting feelings' in others and 'interpersonal harmony') in a way that is intended to achieve that setpoint.

Fi is like a conscience that holds a person to a subjective standard of 'my core identity,' 'my values,' and 'the way life should be lived.' so everything is automatically compared against that standard, and the conscience registers and starts producing very uncomfortable feelings if that standard is violated. an Fi user is concerned about being at peace with himself/herself internally - so anything that promotes internal harmony is accepted, and that which disrupts peace is rejected.

on the surface, Fe and Fi at times can appear similar. this is because Fe and Fi can (it depends on the Fi user, since values are subjectively defined by each Fi user) share similar values/codes of conduct. for instance, an Fi user may value how others feel or believe that others should be treated with respect, therefore can experience it as an internal violation when others are hurt or treated badly, and respond to make others feel better, because doing so is in line with their values. but internally, the two are not the same. Fe's sensor is attuned most to external feelings, while Fi's sensor is attuned most to internal feelings. the ultimate motive behind the behavior is different (where the violation is felt - against the interior self, or against others - and where the individual most and first desires to restore peace and good feeling - internally or externally), even if the behavior is the same.

Ok, yeah, I get the feeling that sarcasm and rough humor are not the purveys of either Fe or Fi. Is that a pretty much consistent thing, that no Fe/Fi doms/auxes care for humor at the expense of others, or is that not really always applicable to either?

also, @Mitsuko

[Neverontime]

Both Fi's and Fe's value inner and outer harmony, the difference is how they think it can be achieved.

[Mitsuko]

I can't say whether it's applicable to one F more than the other.

NiFe's (and SiFe's, I think) can be very f--- sarcastic.
The SeFi I know loves pranks, so he's generally not opposed to humour at the expense of others. (He feels bad when the other person is devastated, but otherwise he doesn't care too much. They should worry about something bigger than a prank!)

I suspect F-dominants dislike that humour a little more. I'm the one in the family [2-full T's, one "soft" T] who has the lowest tolerance for dead-baby jokes. I realize it's a joke, but I'm not too comfortable in that arena. Babies haven't done anything yet to warrant such behaviour.
Not to say we are not capable of it, or incapable of enjoying it. Just less likely to, even MUCH less likely to in cases of strong F-dominants.

If Fi tells you to destroy/kill things, the jokes would probably be okay. Or if Fe decides it would be best. Either one.