[marzipan01]

I met an INFJ not too long ago who was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Another INFJ I know claims to have split personality disorder.

I don't doubt that they expressed symptoms of either illness. In fact, I believe they do/did. But they seem so aware of what is happening and aware of the "crazy" that it feels like it isn't actually an illness. If you were really crazy, you wouldn't know that you were crazy, if that makes any sense. Also, most psychological illnesses are present in normal/healthy psyches it's a matter of degree. And I have all the same symptoms sometimes, I just don't let it pull me a part and go berserker about it. Most of it is merely a consequence of having strong intuitive functions.

Another thing I've noticed in INFJs is really low self-esteem. Like chronically low. And I believe the two have some correlation. I'm pretty confident (perhaps borderline narcissist as is characteristic of my type) and I'm wondering if that is why I have never considered my eccentricity to be an "illness" whereas many of my INFJ friends, upon discovering their eccentricity, feel otherwise.

So my questions are...

1. If you are an INFJ who has struggled with this in the past, what advice do you give to those who are still struggling?
2. Do you think this is a characteristic of INFJ and if so, why do you think that is?
3. If you are an INFJ who is struggling, I'm all ears and open hearted.
4. Anything else you would like to add in regards to this matter. Hit me if you like. Right in the kisser. I can take it. ;)

[LiquidLight]

Its tough because there's a difference between someone who is normal, but just doesn't act normal, versus someone who has an actual pathology.

I don't know that low self-confidence affects INFJs anymore than any other type, unless the confidence issues are centered around Sensation type stuff (like body image issues, weight, physical problems, etc) these kinds of things are just normal to Intuitives who have Sensation issues anyway. But that doesn't always translate into really terrible self-esteem 100% of the time just maybe some issues.

Obviously Extraverted Feeling types are susceptible to the influences of the opinions of other people, probably moreso than their Fi-counterparts simply because when it comes to measures of evaluation, even of the self, the focus is going to be external so a negative environment does no favors here, but again this can be the case for all types with Fe not just INFJs.

One thing we have to remember is that perception types (Ne/Ne/Si/Se dominants) will struggle a bit in a judgment oriented society. Jung specifically says don't be surprised if Ne-doms get seen as crazy by judgment types who can't understand how perception types operate. Ni-doms are often looked as being weird or having their head up their a** or something or just crazy or in la-la land. So you can imagine growing up as a perception type in such an environment will do you no favors either (Se types get seen as reckless a lot of the time, Ne types as crazy and so on).

[marzipan01]

One thing we have to remember is that perception types (Ne/Ne/Si/Se dominants) will struggle a bit in a judgment oriented society. Jung specifically says don't be surprised if Ne-doms get seen as crazy by judgment types who can't understand how perception types operate. Ni-doms are often looked as being weird or having their head up their a** or something or just crazy or in la-la land. So you can imagine growing up as a perception type in such an environment will do you no favors either (Se types get seen as reckless a lot of the time, Ne types as crazy and so on).

Wow, so, you're either: reckless, crazy, or passing judgement (i.e. jerk). lmao. That's pretty much how I see it but I didn't have the words for it. Just goes to show you, I suppose, that nobody's perfect. ;)

[LiquidLight]

Well just look at how perception types are portrayed in the media. Look at how ESFPs for example get portrayed (wild, reckless, partiers, or as being gay, or football players with no brain, rappers, Jersey Shore types...definitely never portrayed as being thoughtful or insightful, despite the fact that many are). Or Ne-doms. Crazy mad scientists, inventors who never accomplish anything, reckless, never settling down (I know people who swear ENxPs must have some sort of ADD or bi-polar, they just can't understand Ne). Only after the Ne-dom dies do people recognize him as visionary (you hope).

Si-doms are almost always portrayed negatively (miserly, stingy, scared of their own shadow). America is a very Te and Fe oriented society culturally (we basically preach to our kids Extraverted Thinking like hard work, not being too future focused, sociability, military sacrifice, not paying attention to what you want but what is good for the group or what pays the bills, etc - this is all Extraverted Judgment) and so any types that do not easily fit that mold (including all introverts) have some sort of negative stigma attached to them.

[marzipan01]

Well just look at how perception types are portrayed in the media. Look at how ESFPs for example get portrayed (wild, reckless, partiers, or as being gay, or football players with no brain, rappers, Jersey Shore types...definitely never portrayed as being thoughtful or insightful, despite the fact that many are). Or Ne-doms. Crazy mad scientists, inventors who never accomplish anything, reckless, never settling down (I know people who swear ENxPs must have some sort of ADD or bi-polar, they just can't understand Ne). Only after the Ne-dom dies do people recognize him as visionary (you hope).

Si-doms are almost always portrayed negatively (miserly, stingy, scared of their own shadow). America is a very Te and Fe oriented society culturally (we basically preach to our kids Extraverted Thinking like hard work, not being too future focused, sociability, military sacrifice, not paying attention to what you want but what is good for the group or what pays the bills, etc - this is all Extraverted Judgment) and so any types that do not easily fit that mold (including all introverts) have some sort of negative stigma attached to them.

My theory on it is that:
If you can't produce something of value, you're insane.
If you can produce something of value, you're a visionary.
Even visionaries are seen as mildly insane, though. Most of the time what they do doesn't seem to have any value, either.
The trick is to find a way to use your functions in a way that are productive, create something, and then find a way to make that something seem valuable. lmao.

I don't know. There is a trick to this. I'm sure there is. ;)

But you're right. Jung actually said that the intuitive types are seen as crazy in society. Ni types particularly so (he called Ni the "God" function).

ESxJs read though. Most of them are readers. So writing them novels is good enough to make them believe you've created something of value and are no longer under the jurisdiction of crazy. ;)

[GoodOldDreamer]

Hey now. I'm not crazy. I'm eccentric.

[LiquidLight]

My theory on it is that:
If you can't produce something of value, you're insane.
If you can produce something of value, you're a visionary.
Even visionaries are seen as mildly insane, though. Most of the time what they do doesn't seem to have any value, either.
The trick is to find a way to use your functions in a way that are productive, create something, and then find a way to make that something seem valuable. lmao.

I don't know. There is a trick to this. I'm sure there is. ;)

But you're right. Jung actually said that the intuitive types are seen as crazy in society. Ni types particularly so (he called Ni the "God" function).

ESxJs read though. Most of them are readers. So writing them novels is good enough to make them believe you've created something of value and are no longer under the jurisdiction of crazy. ;)

All of this points towards a preference for Extraverted Judgment in society. It's just inescapable. All you have to do is look at a job application and the kinds of questions they ask. Most of them are generally very Te-oriented (how organized are you, etc).

[marzipan01]

All of this points towards a preference for Extraverted Judgment in society. It's just inescapable. All you have to do is look at a job application and the kinds of questions they ask. Most of them are generally very Te-oriented (how organized are you, etc).

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Just knowing what they want you can give it to them to satisfy what they want. Then they get off your back about crap. It's like Hobbes said (paraphrasing obviously) outward compliance is all that counts. You be as crazy as you want in your head. ;)

[Vivid Melody]

I personally alternate between low self-confidence and narcissism. I attribute it to the type 6 in me.

[Opabinia]

I was told by an ESTP that he perceives me as being very confident. Totally caught me off guard. I think it must depend on who you are around. If you're around people who appreciate your natural abilities, you will be confident. If you're constantly getting messages that you aren't good enough, then you won't be confident.