[INFJ] INFJs and Honesty

INFJs and Honesty

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This is a discussion on INFJs and Honesty within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; This is provoked by a conversation in the Ask and INFJ a Relationship Question thread. I didn't want to expand ...

  1. #1
    INFP - The Idealists

    INFJs and Honesty

    This is provoked by a conversation in the Ask and INFJ a Relationship Question thread. I didn't want to expand on it too much there because I don't like to derail threads and I also want more opinions.

    Honesty is definitely on the list of values for INFJs. We all can probably agree that we hate when people lie to us. I'm interested to see what some of you INFJs have to say about it. In particular, this quote is what really got me thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by SilentScream View Post
    ...I know enough INFJ's on PerC to know that they inherently know who's genuine and who's not --- they're hard to manipulate -- and the second the mask slips, they go in for the kill.

    If anyone here thinks that they can fool an INFJ or ENFJ has another thing coming --- Personally, I toy with with people I *know* are being dishonest and take them as far as they think they can go before I bring down the judgement ... and it's harsh as hell. They think they're playing me --- when in effect, I know exactly what they're all about.

    If there's anything I disrespect in this world then it's dishonesty because it makes me feel disrespected.
    So, my questions are:

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)
    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.
    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)
    -To someone close to you?
    -To strangers?

    And anything else you'd like to say on the subject is always welcome.
    Jawz and Jamie.Ether thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Just depends. It used to be I would get really angry about it. Now, not so much. I see it now more as a character flaw and usually let them believe that I believe them.
    vagus, Jawz, Etherea and 1 others thanked this post.

  3. #3
    INFJ - The Protectors

    This might be the one area where INFJs can be frustrating.
    Why? Because I find them rather hypocritical on this subject.
    INFJs insist on complete honesty from others, but can justify and rationalize there own dishonesty and spin it into something "noble".
    Maybe in the mind of Ni, does adding another perspective seem the correct thing to do.. But to others a lie is a lie and they probably don't really care what spin can be put on it.
    At this point even more hypocrisy tends to come out.
    The INFJ is told.."Hey you can always justify your lies and claim there was a noble and protective purpose being served, So why are my lies all "underhanded" and "designed only to for deceit?" Maybe I had good reasons for lying as well. Where is all your empathy now?"
    I have yet in my own personal experiences seen an INFJ concede at this point.
    Normally this where the INFJ begins the deflection game and starts accusing the other of being mean or starts focusing on some semantic or other non relevant point. It sometimes feels like it is considered almost a crime to call out an INFJ on their shortcomings.

  4. #4
    INTJ - The Scientists

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    Leave them be, or call them on it, depending on the situation and the possible cause (if they're upset about something that I can't help with and want to lie about it, I leave them for a good long time before doing anything, hoping they'll get over it).

    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    Sometimes, but only if it would cause more harm than good to call them on it. Sometimes I would just to see how they really feel about me (if they can lie to me, then I'm obviously not as close to them as I think).

    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)

    If it's to a group of close friends, I find it awful. If we're friends, why can't they be honest? I'd probably not say anything, but I'd be pretty upset. If it was to strangers, it doesn't bother me as much - people try to look cool sometimes. They'll realise it's wrong in the end.

    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.
    I'd do everything I could to make sure they never benefited from the lie, then they could learn to do things the honest way and accept the consequences. If a relationship is based on falsehood, it won't last and they should be able to see that. Lies to work the system are pretty bad, but not AS bad - the system's ruthless, but I'd prefer to beat it honestly. I guess that's down to personal preference.

    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)

    Depends. I might give hints or pull holes in their words to show them I know, or I might leave it alone, but give them looks. I know I wouldn't be able to trust them properly until they stopped lying. I can't stand being lied to, and it may very well ruin our relationship.

    -To someone close to you?

    More likely to say something, or tell the person being lied to about it. No one deserves lies.

    -To strangers?

    Haven't ever been in that situation... I might take them to one side and ask them why they're doing it.
    Jawz, Etherea and Jaimie thanked this post.

  5. #5
    INFJ - The Protectors

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    Oooh, this depends on who the someone is. If it's a complete stranger, I just walk away and move on. If it's a friend, the first words out of my mouth are usually, "Dude...seriously." For the record, I'll refer to both my male AND female friends as "dude."

    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    Honestly, yes. Once they take it far enough, I tend to "go in for the kill." It might be wrong of me...I sometimes feel like I'm playing with my food before I eat it, but there's also a huge part of me who is offended when someone continues to blatantly lie to me - I feel as if they're insulting my intelligence. And if anyone wants me to get mean, treating me like I'm stupid is a great way to bring it about. I "go in for the kill" when I feel they've taken it far enough that I can stand there, call them out on every lie they've told me, and tell them I'm not so easy to manipulate.

    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)
    Assuming said liars are friends/people I know, it depends on the intention, I suppose. If you're lying about yourself to impress people, I might be the kind of smartass that would blurt out, "What the hell is that matter with you??" I try not to do these things in front of others - I don't like to embarrass people "for fun," but if it's getting ridiculous, they're getting the eyebrow raise from me. If they're just trying to make someone feel better, I might cringe a little, but I'm going to stay out of it. Little white lies happen - I've had to use them from time to time just to get people off my back.

    I remember once at work I accidentally sent about 500 emails to students that said they had been withdrawn from the college, and had some major clean-up to do. I got panicked calls for the next two days of students asking why they'd gotten it. At first, I tried to take accountability and explain that it was my fault, I made a mistake using our new system, that I was very sorry for the confusion, and not to worry. However, they seemed to think that that wasn't a good enough explanation, and they kept asking me why it happened. When I finally just said, "It was just a computer glitch, and we've it gotten fixed," it changed EVERYTHING. The minute I said that, the students would say, "Oh, okay! Thanks!"

    But for the record, I TRIED to be the big person and hold myself accountable for my mistakes!

    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.
    Again, if it's a friend of mine, and they're doing this to me, I'm not pleased, and I will let them know it...they will likely get the door-slam. If it's someone I don't know, and I can see them doing it with other people I don't know, I won't say anything, but I'll be silently judging them to be douchewads.

    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)
    Oh, I'll call someone out on it. Homey don't play that. And then they get the door-slam.

    -To someone close to you?
    Aw, HELL NAW! You do NOT lie to the people I love! Since I don't really have the stature to physically eviscerate anyone, I will VERBALLY and RHETORICALLY eviscerate them. And then I give the door-slam.

    -To strangers?
    If I know the liar, I'll probably ask him/her later, "What possessed you to say that?" And it will probably lower my opinion of them. If the liar is someone I don't know, well, my opinion of them will still be lowered, and I'll make it a point NOT to know them.
    Jawz, Etherea and aramz14 thanked this post.

  6. #6
    INFJ - The Protectors

    So, my questions are:

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?

    Well if I have "provable" evidence I will definitely confront them about it in my own INFJ-like way. Sometimes depends on what they are lying about on how I will "call them out", most times privately but sometimes that person just needs to be "shut down" in front of everyone. If it's not "provable" and still ("I just know they are") I kind of start to either drift from them slowly or collect more data depending on situation, collecting more data is the equivalent to a hound dog catching a scent and chasing it.

    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?

    No, the integrity of the situation is already compromised, "usually" I don't wait, unless I'm really loading up on the data for later exposure.

    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)

    Lying about things to impress people is not my thing, but I'm not a judge on such matters, personally it's a "stupid" thing to do. Lying to make people feel better, meh......I'm at a weird spot with that, so it would depend on the situation and what the actual accomplished motivation of making someone feel better was. I usually always try to stick with the truth, it's just easier, and better communication with other people in my opinion.

    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.

    NO!

    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?

    Depends, but the communication assassin inside of me starts to creep out.

    -To someone close to you?

    I will tell that person, and situation will dictate when I feel it's appropriate for that person to know.

    -To strangers?

    If I "feel" for the stranger or it's something that might lead to a dangerous situation I probably will voice my opinion on it to them, however again situation will dictate. Sometimes I kind of figure the stranger should be able to figure it out. Seems like a weird thing I would expect doesn't it, sometimes I'm just like "oh they see it, they have to." Obvious to the fact they actually may not. :(
    And anything else you'd like to say on the subject is always welcome.
    expodentialfunction, Jawz and Etherea thanked this post.

  7. #7
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    This might be the one area where INFJs can be frustrating.
    Why? Because I find them rather hypocritical on this subject.
    INFJs insist on complete honesty from others, but can justify and rationalize there own dishonesty and spin it into something "noble".
    Maybe in the mind of Ni, does adding another perspective seem the correct thing to do.. But to others a lie is a lie and they probably don't really care what spin can be put on it.
    At this point even more hypocrisy tends to come out.
    The INFJ is told.."Hey you can always justify your lies and claim there was a noble and protective purpose being served, So why are my lies all "underhanded" and "designed only to for deceit?" Maybe I had good reasons for lying as well. Where is all your empathy now?"
    I have yet in my own personal experiences seen an INFJ concede at this point.
    Normally this where the INFJ begins the deflection game and starts accusing the other of being mean or starts focusing on some semantic or other non relevant point. It sometimes feels like it is considered almost a crime to call out an INFJ on their shortcomings.
    INFJs are great at visualizing for others how they should ideally be, yet we can indeed have a blind spot regarding our own behavior at times. No MBTI type is perfect. Sometimes the combination of traits that make up a type can be both the source of their strengths and weaknesses.

    This particular aspect of INFJs that you point out comes with the territory for anyone who is friends with or in a relationship with one. You are an INFJ, too. Are you completely devoid of hypocrisy?
    Last edited by Intricate Mystic; 08-28-2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: change wording
    Etherea thanked this post.

  8. #8
    INFJ - The Protectors

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    I don't say anything directly to the person. I just let them think they got it past me. If it's a friend who lied to me, I generally talk to other friends about it. If it's not a friend, I will not do anything, but I never forget when someone lies to me.


    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    Not to see how far they will take it, but to not get into an argument; I don't let them know that I know.

    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)
    It still really bothers me when people lie, regardless of how serious it is. I just don't understand it. It makes me want to ask them what they are getting out of lying to me.


    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.
    These are relationship/friendship breakers. I still don't like to confront them about it. I just stop talking to them completely. My answer to the first question applies here too.

    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)
    Like I said earlier, I just let them think they got it past me, but i never forget. Lying really bothers me.

    -To someone close to you?
    I will let the person they lied to know that they just got lied to.

    -To strangers?
    I probably wouldn't do anything.
    Etherea thanked this post.

  9. #9
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosslyn View Post
    This is provoked by a conversation in the Ask and INFJ a Relationship Question thread. I didn't want to expand on it too much there because I don't like to derail threads and I also want more opinions.

    Honesty is definitely on the list of values for INFJs. We all can probably agree that we hate when people lie to us. I'm interested to see what some of you INFJs have to say about it. In particular, this quote is what really got me thinking.




    So, my questions are:

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.)
    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain.
    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)
    -To someone close to you?
    -To strangers?

    And anything else you'd like to say on the subject is always welcome.
    Since that comment you quoted came directly from my post, I will expound upon my feelings on this:

    I feel that INFJ are so into being super sleuth's that they outwit themselves. They are so keen to find lies that they think they have found lies when they haven't, because something was triggered.

    This is very relevant to me, because I am one sarcastic guy. It's not always easy to pick up on sarcasm, or interpret it's meaning. I feel like an INFJ who hasn't figured out the meaning will easily jump to a conclusion about the meaning, just based on past experience (generally experiences with the ESTP - the con artist - who comes off as very similar initially).

    I know one INFJ who, after meeting my sarcastic side, was convinced that *everything about me* was a lie. She said "I don't even know how old you are" in passing, straight up, and she was serious. Even though she knew exactly my age, if she believed me in general. That to me is saying "I don't trust a word you've said to me".

    So it's interesting sometimes how the lie detector works with the very complicated N types. An INFJ might be so used to dealing with relatively simple S types that the INFJ psychs his or herself out.
    Marijke90, Etherea and Jaimie thanked this post.

  10. #10
    INFJ - The Protectors

    -What do you do when you find out someone is lying to you?
    It depends who it is and what the lie is about. If the lie in no way affects me or someone I care about I don't say a word. If it's someone I know and the lie hurts me or someone I care about, I call them out on it. If they deny it, all hell breaks loose (referring to serious lies here, not just dumb ones). Then again, I've found that even the simple lies upset me because then it makes me feel like I can't trust the person any more. It's really annoying because it's unreasonable to be that way especially over something that isn't a big deal but it's really hard for me to shake. Just makes me feel insecure I guess : /

    -Do you ever let them think you believe them to find out how far they will take it?
    Once again, it depends who it is and what they are lying about. Sometimes I'll wait to see if they're going to be honest with me on their own or I let them figure out that I'm on to them and have them ask me about it. If not, then it will eventually come out.

    -What about minor lies? (Lying about things to impress people, lying to make people feel better, etc. Lies that are mostly harmless.) I don't call people out on these. I may innocently ask someone I know or care about why they lied about something so insignificant to see if it's a legitimate explanation.

    -What about major lies? (Lies that build friendships and relationships based on the falsehood, lies to "work the system", etc. Lies that are for personal gain. I'm unable to tolerate these. It hurts too much to pretend.

    -What do you do if someone is lying to you?)
    Well I'm pretty gullible so usually I don't know but assuming that I know, I usually politely point it out (through a question) in a diplomatic way. I've come to find that most people deny the truth so there's no point in calling them out in the first place. I guess everyone deserves a chance though. I've had some bad experiences with compulsive liars who do nothing but deny even when you can flat out prove that they are lying. I think some of them lie so much they're not even aware of what's true and false any more. They live in a fantasy world.

    -To someone close to you?
    It really depends what it's about. If it's serious enough I will. Most of the time it's none of my business though and I wait for it to be naturally revealed.

    -To strangers?
    Once again, depends on the severity of the lie but nine times out of ten, I do nothing since there's usually no point.


    I've also learned that when someone asks you what is wrong and there is something wrong, "nothing" isn't an acceptable answer. It's still a lie even if it's small (no matter how much I don't want to hurt the person). Maybe this is a female habit. I don't know. I think hypocrisy is easy to fall into with this stuff like Arclight was saying. I would hate to become the very thing I despise.
    Hokahey and Etherea thanked this post.


 

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