[INFJ] Sociopathy: Evolutionary trait?

Sociopathy: Evolutionary trait?

+ Reply to Thread
Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Thank Tree6Thanks
  • 2 Post By Pacifique
  • 1 Post By Verlavender
  • 1 Post By Eye of the Potato
  • 1 Post By Vanishing Point
  • 1 Post By INF Jay

This is a discussion on Sociopathy: Evolutionary trait? within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Not so long ago, I came to realisation about who I had a sort of casual relationship/fling with and slight ...

  1. #1
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Sociopathy: Evolutionary trait?

    Not so long ago, I came to realisation about who I had a sort of casual relationship/fling with and slight crush on turned out to be a complete full-blown Sociopath/Psychopath with a lot of criminal tendencies and history...

    Based upon my observations and experiences with him, it was extremely difficult to find any sort of emotional common ground nor expect any kind of empathy or basic decency from this person. I was so surprised but very soon popped up in my head the word 'Sociopath'. This was, nevertheless, rather amusing for me mainly due to its irony. I always knew that I am a very emotionally needy, helplessly narcissistic, really hopeless and wishy-washy emotive kind of person, and I was attracted to the complete opposite type at the same time wanting, expecting the impossible warm, gentle, soft, sensitive, emotive, personal, intimate, nourishing things from someone who is hard-wired for apathetic self-interest, austere, goal-driven, opportunistic, logical processes!

    It was very hard to discuss the idea of 'honesty' with him. As I was trying to explain to him that I have a certain need to share honesty with someone to feel closer to them and I got some very interesting reactions!! I tried very hard not to judge him and appreciate him for his own personalities, but in the end, I found it hard not to ignore how selfish and completely apathetic one can get, it got worse very quickly!

    There were still a very few interesting traits that I witnessed: He was emotionally independent or maybe that category was minimal to him. Very much detached from other people's emotions, hence extremely manipulative to a degree that mess up with your own head (I'm not sure if it is a good thing in ethical sense but in survival terms, it might be beneficial under certain circumstances). Believe or not, on a superficial level he had very good social skills but soon after you realise a pattern: it is utterly, purely for self-interest! Although there were times when he was extremely sensitive to any critical suggestions, and he had weird ideas about always being right and the existence of the absolute truth and justice and so on!! (and i was arguing about how people can have different perceptions and truths depending on their world view and so on!!) Plus he is very focused and goal-orientated, doesn't quite easily give up or get distracted. I felt that if he had a different kind of upbringing, or made different choices, he could have done real good things for himself and other people.

    Evolution does seem to play a lot of game to our emotional realities.. and I ask myself, is there anything that can be studied from sociopathic behaviours and actually find a way to emulate that process for a better, more humanitarian use?
    cyamitide and Eye of the Potato thanked this post.



  2. #2
    Unknown Personality

    Reading your post, I'm have a hunch you already have some ideas in answer to your own question. Care to share?

    My guess? The way you've described yourself and your ex, you've set yourselves up as nearly polar opposites. Extremes of any kind are rarely good; could you be really asking about finding middle ground? Many empathetic, unselfish people are also goal-oriented and perseverant, and many would be better humans if they'd made other choices... but I'm having trouble drawing from that any logical conclusion that emulation of sociopathy, specifically, could have have benefits. Emulation of specific qualities could be good, but those qualities aren't limited to sociopaths, we could probably find much better examples of those qualities in other people. Not to say that there wasn't some good in your friend, 'cause I don't know him!

  3. #3
    INFJ - The Protectors

    There may be some evolutionary forces at play. As far as human evolution, working in groups seems to be an advantage for survival. It could be that a wide range of skills within a group also is an advantage for survival.

    A few leaders, a few really creative/innovative individuals and the rest followers may have made up the balance of a successful group.

    I'm not sure why a sociopath is an evolutionary advantage. This is total conjecture, but I'll take a shot at it:

    A group of early nomadic people settle in an area. They grow attached to the area. But the leader of the group, who is less attached to the area knows staying is not a good idea. The leader has no trouble uprooting the clan to find greener pastures. The leader's detachment is beneficial to the group's survival in that case.

    I'm also thinking the group cannot be full of leaders, else they would kill each other off pretty quickly!

    So speaking in purely evolutionary terms, sociopaths may have played a role. I'm not saying that all leaders are sociopaths, but there are enough of them around to make you think why.


    interesting video on the subject:

    http://bigthink.com/ideas/24895
    Pacifique thanked this post.

  4. #4
    ENFP - The Inspirers


    Do you mean like if there was a disaster of some sort and necessities became rare? Would a sociopath at the head of a family help them survive? By killing other families? Or taking what is not theirs and not caring? Well if it was to help their family it wouldn't be entirely selfish.

    I don't know, nature is so strange you could be onto something.

  5. #5
    ENFP - The Inspirers


    Quote Originally Posted by Veramacor View Post
    There may be some evolutionary forces at play. As far as human evolution, working in groups seems to be an advantage for survival. It could be that a wide range of skills within a group also is an advantage for survival.

    A few leaders, a few really creative/innovative individuals and the rest followers may have made up the balance of a successful group.

    I'm not sure why a sociopath is an evolutionary advantage. This is total conjecture, but I'll take a shot at it:

    A group of early nomadic people settle in an area. They grow attached to the area. But the leader of the group, who is less attached to the area knows staying is not a good idea. The leader has no trouble uprooting the clan to find greener pastures. The leader's detachment is beneficial to the group's survival in that case.

    I'm also thinking the group cannot be full of leaders, else they would kill each other off pretty quickly!

    So speaking in purely evolutionary terms, sociopaths may have played a role. I'm not saying that all leaders are sociopaths, but there are enough of them around to make you think why.


    interesting video on the subject:

    Leaders Are More Likely To Be Sociopaths | Paul Lawrence | Big Think
    Ooooh! That's good. I wanted to thank it but there was no thank button for some reason.
    Verlavender thanked this post.

  6. #6
    INFJ - The Protectors

    I would guess it's a leftover from the time when humans (or ancestor species) were solitary creatures. Then, you wouldn't trust other creatures because they were competitors for food and other resources.

    All humans have that drive to some degree, but I think sociopaths take it to the next level. I believe most mental illnesses are really just extremes of otherwise ordinary behavior.

  7. #7
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Answer

    There is a mammalian hormone called Oxytocin that is responsible for racial prejudices and other great acts of narcissism. When a mother is pregnant yet filled with fear and beaten this hormone rises to extreme levels in the bastard offspring. This hormone controls the propagation of the species. Consider the ploy of the apple that falls further from the tree so it catches enough sunlight to survive.

    And this fact is why INTP and INTJ whom are often greatly devoted to their family and mutual interdependence do not get along with INFJ. If you read the original works of Carl Jung he shows how there have been 2 groups of opposition fighting a fruitless struggle all throughout humanity since ancient times with different underlying priorities of desires. IxFx and ExTx.

  8. #8
    INFJ - The Protectors

    There aren't as many selection pressures anymore, at least in many first world countries. You don't need to be particularly physically fit, attractive, intelligent, creative (etc.) to survive and produce offspring. Most of us aren't going to get eaten by predators, and in the short term our survival no longer depends on the intense cooperation of the members of our groups. Genetic variety is probably as high as it's ever been because of this lack of selection pressure, there are no mortal consequences anymore for people with traits that would have ostracized them from society in more primitive times or traits that would have resulted in getting eaten.

  9. #9
    Unknown Personality

    Quote Originally Posted by Vion View Post
    And this fact is why INTP and INTJ whom are often greatly devoted to their family and mutual interdependence do not get along with INFJ. If you read the original works of Carl Jung he shows how there have been 2 groups of opposition fighting a fruitless struggle all throughout humanity since ancient times with different underlying priorities of desires. IxFx and ExTx.
    Sounds epic. I hope there are capes, flaring nostrils and duels at dawn.
    Evasive8991 thanked this post.

  10. #10
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Evolution does play a large role in emotional development, but I question how much social and cultural values also shape us. Is it nature vs. nurture, tabula rasa vs. inherent, biological dispositions? I think one picks up where the other one leaves off, honestly.


    To an extent I think it is very much our society:


    "American society seems to allow and even encourage me-first attitudes devoted to the pursuit of domination...Our society is moving in a direction of permitting, reinforcing, and in some instances actually valuing some of the traits listen in the Psychopathy Checklist...North American culture, which holds individualism as a central value, tends to foster the development of antisocial behavior, and also disguise it." - Sociopath Next Door, Martha Stout, P 136-137.


    It seems to me as though We as a culture are growing increasingly narcissistic and self-focused, yet we still culturally project the necessity of the group. Look at us, INFJ's - introversion is looked at as a negative, it is 'antisocial' behavior in itself (something we should avoid), whereas an extroverted person may simply be described as having a great personality. The extrovert has that rich outer world of connections with others, but a sociopathic person is extroverted only in the sense that it is a necessary trait to get what they desire in a group-oriented world. It is an emulation, and as such we see some killer sociopathic actors. You get good at manipulating the spotlight.


    However, for a great deal of our evolution a sociopathic person would not have been able to survive in a modern context, he or she would die as a hunter/gatherer. But something did change, moving to agrarian societies we do see the rise of the elite group of people. Perhaps just as our brains were designed to sharpen stone, so too were we designed to desire domination. Hmm...comes full circle. Nature and nurture.


    Personally, I do not think there is any humanitarian end to sociopathic tendencies what-so-ever. He may be a very idealistic individual, considering you mention his thoughts of absolute truth and justice; but a true sociopath does not have humankind at heart. They have only themselves at heart. I think the way you tried to engage him is humanitarian and wonderful, and I think people should emulate you more often, not some of the traits of this person. Be careful of the diagnosis, as well, thats a heavy one. He may very well have a conscience! One perhaps saturated in social rocket fuel...sorry for all the text.
    Evasive8991 thanked this post.


 

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. *Note* To protect our forum from spam, we require all users to verify their email. We will send you a confirmation email after you've created an account. Be sure to check your "spam" box if you don't receive it in your inbox.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Similar Threads

  1. What's your best trait?
    By SuperDevastation in forum Personality Test Resources
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  2. Depressions evolutionary roots
    By Robwayprime in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-02-2010, 02:51 PM
  3. [INFJ] Have I warped sociopathy?
    By Zomboy in forum INFJ Forum - The Protectors
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-17-2010, 08:20 PM
  4. The evolutionary history of the IRGM 'God' gene.
    By Kevinaswell in forum Science and Technology
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-18-2010, 12:08 AM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-20-2010, 12:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:56 PM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
2014 PersonalityCafe