[SarahWilliams]

So. INFJ and a SP relationship? Bad idea or good? Is it even possible?

I'm a female INFJ, and I have a very attractive male ESFP coworker (my typing - not based on any real fact other than he's definitely a painter/animator, and based on life choices and extended conversations - i would guess ESFP)



This guy adores me... for better or for worse. And, to be completely honest, he is very fun company, and is attentive and nice. Almost overly nice. He remembers what I order in each restaurant. He makes sure I am well cared for and happy. We can talk for a long period of time without getting bored....

BUT - I don't think we're a long term match. We are different pages in the same book. He wants to like me because I *seem* like his ideal match. But I'm not. I need more. I need complexity. I need questions, ideas. etc. Still - he seems kind of entertaining.

Has anyone ever dared enter a relationship with an SP (any type)? What did you think? Was it better or worse than you imagined? Would you recommend such a relationship? Why or why not?

[Vivid Melody]

I think you answered your own question ;)

Complex people tend to need complex people but I guess it could work. I just know I could have never been truly happy with a simple person (not that being simple is a bad thing).

[vel]

With SPs you're filling in each other's weaker areas - his dominant Se is entertaining and energizing while your dominant Ni provides some insight and conceptual backing. It's attraction of the opposites.

According to socionics these are relations of semi-duality: Relations of Semi-Duality & Semi-duality

[Ena]

I think you answered your own question ;)

Complex people tend to need complex people but I guess it could work. I just know I could have never been truly happy with a simple person (not that being simple is a bad thing).

Complex people can benefit very well from simple people's structure too. Remember when everyone's an idealists its hard to get reality rolling! But yea that's all hypothetical. If he is F that's fantastic. At least he respects your feelings. Painter is a plus I'd like that. But as I delve deeper and deeper into art myself, its not so mystic anymore. Don't get me wrong, its more beautiful than anything I've come across in my lifetime, having the ability to express yourself without words, oh my gosh its so nice. But don't let it direct the ambition because its only a branch on the tree.

Anyways, if he *seems* unctuously polite, chances are, he is and you are picking up on it as expected for an INFJ. That's the social him, and not really the true him. S's and P's often resort to learned civilities in order to demonstrate their affections and also to function amiably with others. F's make it personal very easily. That all being said, I would keep him around and just get to know him in adverse and personally challenging situations. If I EVER decided to enter a relationship, I'd make sure that I could at least witness the strength of their virtue through some kind of hardship because it would show me where their heart is at.

War, competition, break-ups, job loss, family loss, health problem, a personal goal such as a race or a training camp, new personal ambitions (and continually developing motivations) all put people out of their comfort zone, and into the "equalizer zone".

I know these sound semi-radical but I've really seen it bring out people's true colours. Strips lies away like CLR does rust on chrome. Given the nature of SP or SJ, I'd go in afterwards.

[Vivid Melody]

Complex people can benefit very well from simple people's structure too. Remember when everyone's an idealists its hard to get reality rolling! But yea that's all hypothetical. If he is F that's fantastic. At least he respects your feelings. Painter is a plus I'd like that. But as I delve deeper and deeper into art myself, its not so mystic anymore. Don't get me wrong, its more beautiful than anything I've come across in my lifetime, having the ability to express yourself without words, oh my gosh its so nice. But don't let it direct the ambition because its only a branch on the tree.

Anyways, if he *seems* unctuously polite, chances are, he is and you are picking up on it as expected for an INFJ. That's the social him, and not really the true him. S's and P's often resort to learned civilities in order to demonstrate their affections and also to function amiably with others. F's make it personal very easily. That all being said, I would keep him around and just get to know him in adverse and personally challenging situations. If I EVER decided to enter a relationship, I'd make sure that I could at least witness the strength of their virtue through some kind of hardship because it would show me where their heart is at.

War, competition, break-ups, job loss, family loss, health problem, a personal goal such as a race or a training camp, new personal ambitions (and continually developing motivations) all put people out of their comfort zone, and into the "equalizer zone".

I know these sound semi-radical but I've really seen it bring out people's true colours. Strips lies away like CLR does rust on chrome. Given the nature of SP or SJ, I'd go in afterwards.

Yes, I agree. Perhaps I made too big a generalization when I was really only trying to express what I personally find fulfilling in a romantic relationship. Blah, I worded it wrong and I was wrong. I really can't speak for everybody else. Simplicity is a gift that I will never know. And it is definitely a gift and useful in society.

[little infinity]

Just to provide prospective from another NF-- I can totally understand where you're coming from. I've actually dated a couple of ESFPs, one actually less than a year ago, and it's very easy to fall for their charm, humor, and how generally fun and lighthearted they are. They make great friends-- they're very entertaining. But I found we were incompatible in some ways-- with the more recent guy, I loved analyzing things (including him, which bugged the shit out of him) and having, ya know, theoretical conversations, whereas he was more interested in talking about day-to-day type stuff. That's fine for a friendship, but not so much for a romantic partner who could potentially become a life partner. I definitely crave complexity, and he was not so complex-- just a bit too light and fluffy and easy to read and lacking substance in some ways. Not trying to hate on ESFPs, of course; as I said, they're great friends. Just not a type that is fulfilling romantically for me, ultimately.

[Digger Blue]

Hi. ESFP weighing in here. I married an INFJ. My wife stares at my face to read any possible emotion that may be leaking out, meanwhile, she sort of misses the facts I am presenting. She gets fed up with my facts, and says it is just too much Digger! For all that may be said about complexity, when the shit hits the fan, it seems to be me who has to pull it together. That does not mean that we don't take turns being the hero. Sure, I want a playmate and she wants a soulmate. We both seem to come up short living up to each others expectations.
Were I to lose her, I'd definitely try dating an SP or an SJ. On the other hand, I am committed to her and to the relationship. We do have to work to make it work. There have been times when she has given me awarenesses to act upon that I would not have picked up on. Those are the glorious moments.
Regards,
Digger Blue

[sea cucumber]

yes Im a bit of an SP addict I'v had the full deck! I nearly married an ISFP, Im now trying to steer clear of them. The ISFP is still my best friend. I think it unfair of you to say they are not complex, I see this as playing on the INFJ steriotype they are comlex and the realtinships were deep and well..... complex! I don't want a rubix cube of a realtionship. I myslef am complex enough with out putting a riddle into a reltionship enigma!

What was good was the fun and spontianity it, I dindt have time to over analyse things I had to move along real fast emntaly to kep up the pase. SP's are like diffrent creatures to me all that S v's my N and P vs my Jness. I had that Sp envy thing, they live a care free easy life full of fun and pay little attentiona to the onsiquences living in the moment taking on everthing that comes there way.

I knew that I lacked this and so tried to feel it through the SP's. however what attarcted me so much also as the stubling point that I could not get ever. It didn't work due to them in my OP not being relefective of their actions enough, hedonstic and un refelctive they don't seem to think that much (sorry digger) well think but did not analysise they simple have proplem and go head in. "i will solve this by doing" for me I go "I will solve this by anlyszing conclude and then act on the conclusion" . There moves were bold and brave. The main problem was I was always one step a head of them for the most part, I knew when there bold moves would back fire and I couldnt stop them from "doing" I had to watch them fuck up over and over. This then turned into me feeling for them as they fucked up and get very upset over it, they were less bothered by the fucks ups than me. One or two bad days and then they move on while Im in the wings still in dispare.

Same story over an over! I also suffer from the S/N comunication devide. When the shit hit the fan and we needed those chats the expression of my emotion comes out in a very N type manner. Its hard to get them to understant Im not fussed by this and that Its the principle of what it means thats upset me.
Fun was another issue, I tired of SP fun quickly I just could not keep up they got bored of my fun. For me the most fun in the world is a Ne user for a game of ideas ping pong its about the only people thing I don't get bored of.

Like Digger all them were all very awaer of how sensitive and how empathic I was, this seemed to be a massive pull for them. I would say never say never every type has its realtionships problems.
The main deal brecker with the ISFP was his drug use. I would have considered working through the other pronblems and giving it another try
If you go into it thinking it will not be complex enough or they are not complex enough you are very wrong and won't stand a chance.

[Digger Blue]

Sea Cucumber:
INFJs and ESFPs both have their place. You are right, SP's are the DOers! Once when in high school there were many people busy working on the school play. I was in the cafeteria with the girdered ceiling about 23 or 25 feet up. We wanted to run an extension cord through the girders from one end to the other. There was also a shortage of ladders. I went up the ladder, and swung from girder to girder threading and pulling the extension cord through the length of the cord, or the length of the gym. I can't remember which ran out first, but it was close. Had I fallen, it would have been a life changing event. On the other hand, I knew my limitations, or at least I thought I did (turns out I was right). Now there were all kinds of other things going on in that situation: testosterone, an audience, plenty of poor judgment and values. I'm not sure what all of the INFJ's were thinking, but I was in my element.

I tend to gravitate to NF women. Don't know why. I get frustrated when they get overwhelmed and ballistically emotionally. Everything comes to a screeching halt and I spend an hour being grilled in what tends to be an unfair inquisition. The Kleenex comes out, and I explain my actions, and justify in the inquisition. Eventually life moves forward.

Nice to read your input, Sea Cucumber.

Regards,
Digger Blue

[sea cucumber]

I don't think the NF types realy think anything abut this sort of thing from SP mostly you guys are very entertaining and fun. The crazy type's. I have done the whole crying thing with full on inquisiton. I have tired explaitong the motives of an SP's actions to an SP when they arn't wither awear of them and work almost totally off impulse.

It's like this really. There is no type or temprament NF or otherwise that you won't have problems with. Finding the right person is about more than MBTi. The MBTi will only indicate where the potential problem areas will happen. I'v hit a brick wall with Sp's so many times and I need to move on from them. However if should meet the right one I think I could work through the problems.