[INFJ] Dealing with Queen Bees

Dealing with Queen Bees

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This is a discussion on Dealing with Queen Bees within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Anyone have any useful tips for dealing with "Queen Bees"? (Think Mean Girls .) My usual strategy is avoidance, but ...

  1. #1
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Dealing with Queen Bees

    Anyone have any useful tips for dealing with "Queen Bees"? (Think Mean Girls.) My usual strategy is avoidance, but I'm entering a situation where I'll have to be around two classmates who are vying to be top jerk in our program. They try to suck in everyone around them so everyone is wrapped up in their problems. I don't want to get wrapped up in their stuff, but I'll have to have some contact with them. Anyone have any useful advice or experience to share?
    Decoy24601 and PollyPocket thanked this post.

  2. #2
    INFP - The Idealists

    Survival rules:

    Keep your answers to personal questions short.
    Less is more. - You're an INFJ you're a natural at this.

    Don't ever agree to anything you don't want to be held responsible for saying.
    "I think Sue is stupid" (you offer a polite conversational nod). That conversational nod might equal "Yellowbrit thinks Sue is stupid" later down the road. If you like Sue this could be hurtful. I've hurt a lot of sues.

    Come up with an opt-out phrase:
    Just incase you ever get hit with a direct question like this: "... so like I was saying she's trashy and I don't want to be around her anymore. I'm too good for that. What do you think I should do? Should I tell her or should I just ignore her?"
    here's mine: "*shrug* I don't know what to say. I'm not the best person to talk to, I've never been in that situation before. I don't want to give you bad advice."

    Come up with something "neutral" to talk about if you're stuck in a situation where conversation is invetiable. Checking news headlines in the morning can give you ideas. "Did you hear about the kid who was kicked off his basketball team because of his hairstyle in Indiana?" is just a lot easier than talking about personal matters.

  3. #3
    INFJ - The Protectors

    I see you've had this experience a few times yourself, Polly. Thanks for your input.
    sea cucumber and PollyPocket thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Respond to questions with statements they'll think favor their opinion, but what're really saying is something else. I'll give an example.

    I talked with a friend of the family on a buss-ride home. He was complaining how he hated the fact that the County had decided to put up street lights out here (I live by the sea, country area) and I sensed that he wanted me to agree with him.
    So I said "Yeah, well if there should be dark somewhere, it should be out here."

    He heard that as "Yeah, it should be dark out here, I'm with ya"

    What I really mean is this "Yeah, _if_ there should be dark somewhere, it should be here. I happen to think it shouldn't, but I'm not saying as much".

    It's a lot harder to use this technique in other social environments such as the one you're going to go through.
    But it's something to keep in mind if you ever find an opening. It's generally just better to follow @PollyPocket s advice about not saying anything, but some people tend to pressure you or scorn you for not taking their side.
    Better to trick them temporarily by feeding their Arrogance.

    "God she looks so ugly in that dress, what do you think?"

    One can respond with "I don't know, [insert some plausible neutral answer]" but if that's going to get interpreted as "Siding with the enemy, A.K.A not agreeing with me" then it might make things difficult.

    An alternative might be to say "Some people can't pull of a dress like that" and let her own mind fill in the "and she can't" which isn't really there.

    But only do this if you think you can get away with it without it coming back and biting you in the [censored] later. If you're hesitant that it won't work, it's better to make an enemy out of the person you disagree with than the person you have no quarrels with.

    Also, I fully agree with everything @PollyPocket s said. Very well put.
    yellowbritt, aboyeraboyer and sea cucumber thanked this post.

  5. #5

    Polly's advice is awesome.

    Remember to be brief and aloof.
    When you are faced with a group of bullies you have to work with, don't go into personal details as Polly said. They can turn your life into gossip, twist your words to use them against you later and interrogate you endlessly with the aim of humiliating you or just making you uncomfortable. Early on, set clear boundaries and tell them off the very first time they offend you/cross the line. This doesn't have to be done in a loud and dramatic way. Be curt, precise and forceful. It's a bit like dealing with a dog, in the disciplining sense. As much as I value peace, I know that, many times, maintaining peace or at least your peace of mind requires an emphatic response.

    Mean Girl: Hey, you have to do (_______enter time consuming task that's being shoved down your throat without any offers of help)this. Or Can you do (__said task__)
    Reply (mistake): I am sorry I can't do this because I am very busy tonight, and I wish I could have helped you but I have a lot going on. It doesn't work with the mean girls. This will lead to questions about what's up and statements surrounding how you 'should' make time, and then you may end up giving in.
    Reply(correct): I am not going to work on this all on my own. Let's split it up.

    Don't ever let them push you around, and NEVER give in to them against your wishes. You will be setting a precedent that you'd much rather not.

    -cut out needless apologies, what's polite and courteous around most is a sign of weakness to bullies-

    I am giving an example of a group task, and it may not apply directly to your situation, but the point is to learn to be brief, to-the-point. Stick to decisions.

    When they try to trash talk people around you, pretend to ignore it by reading a book or reading texts or whatever it is. I would call them out on the bull, but I enjoy crushing bullies. I would suggest that you don't show any level of engagement in their conversation. If this doesn't suit the scenario, the best answer to questions like Polly mentioned (about what you think they should do) is "I am sure you know your situation best and will make the right decision for yourself."

    If they were to address you directly and say something like "Oh, don't you think Lisa looks like crap in that outfit?" I would say, "She looks fine to me. What were you saying about the project deadline?" If they interrogate further, just say "I don't care about these things." Change the subject. This is an example. Cut them off and steer the conversation to something of use. Silence can leave room for speculation when questions are directed to you.

    To avoid getting wrapped up in their drama, remain disinterested and distant. They will realize in time that you are not indulging them and have walled yourself off in a manner they can't violate, so they will move on to the next gullible/inexperienced target.

    I don't know the exact details or I could have given more specific advice. I believe you mostly want to know how to deal with them without making it painful for yourself.
    Last edited by Sina; 01-07-2011 at 02:03 PM.
    SOM, bluefaerie, sea cucumber and 1 others thanked this post.

  6. #6
    Unknown Personality

    Pretty much agree with what everyone said so I'll just reiterate. In my experience, it's best to just keep it at small talk. Don't be over friendly but talk when prompted or asked a question. Also don't smile too much. It's makes them think you're interested. You can't hide the fact that you're a nice person because they can sense it and they will know that you're not like them. But like everyone else said, being aloof but cordial is probably necessary to get by. That's how I got by both mean guys and girls.
    yellowbritt thanked this post.

  7. #7
    Unknown Personality

    Lol strategising! I like it. I think the excellent advice you have received here will serve you well. I really don’t get people like that I totally abhor them. I take you have established these are nasty, stupid shallow pieces of work.
    Keep in mind that what goes around comes around so that at lest gives you something to smile about.
    I’m on board with all you guys @PollyPocket s and @hazelwitch you seem well versed in your strategies. I do something like that to. Polly that was indeed genius!!
    The other option I probably wouldn’t recommend for you though you always could and should any of you wish to try it or have done it I will gladly discuss.

    Is to just all out disagree with their nasty shit and be you

    “Nope sue looks lovely” and then follow with “wow you like unnecessarily criticizing people?”
    Mean girl: “I think so and so is trashy, not sure I want to hang with her”
    Cucumber: “really why because your kind of a bit shallow and judgmental so I thought you would get on well with trashy/ really I think she’s sweet I like her”

    Conversation: Full on INFJ deep deep deeep complex complex complex
    Personal questions: nothing left un said
    Now the point of this is liberation the means girls will still think they are right. I kind off like that though their ignorance then becomes very juxtapose to your righteousness
    .As you can gather it results in them no longer liking you and thinking your weird. Are you really bothered? I never am.
    Never rise to any nasty name-calling or cry don’t wig out. Always remain fair and polite don’t dish out more that what is disserved. Don’t attack where unnecessary, always as a defence only. Never act to friendly in the first place just assume to be neutral and with every nugget of mean they dish out dish a lump of righteousness
    . Measure for measure.
    They and you then dig your own hole at the same pace. They will end up thinking your weird but It doesn’t matter Id rather be weird than shallow and mean.
    The feeling of liberation is worth it. There is of course the aftermath where you have to be in their company and work with them. Just stay polite, focused business like.

    This method does come with a degree of anxiety and hurt feeling s you need a well-developed T to override that. Although I confess I still cant do it with getting a wobbly behind the scenes. It took years of practice to avoid the whole don’t wig out thing

    It’s not for every one I appreciate. Turns out I was never smart enough to think of the alternative tack tick and ended up with that one.
    Sina, yellowbritt and scarygirl thanked this post.

  8. #8
    INFP - The Idealists

    Oh, Queen Bees, they never go away. You'll find them in every level of your life disgracefully :(
    I agree with what they said; do your way and don't get with them unless it's very necessary. Have a small talk with them, and don't say anything too personal. I must admit that it sounds shallow, but at times, when my classmates expressed an opinion and I didn't agree with them but didn't want to put up a fight, I made it seem like I agreed with them. But after i kept doing my life.

    In the other hand other times i would beat the shit out of them and fight for my opinion. Maybe I'm crazy. :(
    HorribleAesthete and yellowbritt thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Important note:

    The only time I employ the method I was describing is either when I:
    *Am talking about something mundane and unimportant.
    *Must temporarily stay on someones good side for the time being.

    Even then, if someone starts to get too mean, trashy or just douche-baggery, I will start to bitch back because I can't deal with idiots like that if they're really bad.

    I assumed from your original post that you would end up in a situation where you had to interact with, and stay on the good side of, a Harpy Queen. Would I be in that situation, I'd do as much damage control as possible and mostly just stay silent.

    If exterior factors wasn't an issue, I'd probably rip them a new one.

    Though to be honest, my abhorrence for conflict probably plays a big part in my attitude.
    Still, can't stand it when people talk shit about folks, especially anyone I happen to care about.

    I had a moment like that once. A gang of people who I all know, card players are sitting there, talking about random stuff. One of them starts badmouthing a classmate and a friend of mine just because she happened to be very concerned about her grades and had big breasts. He made some really stupid comments and I interrupted the entire conversation with one of those patented Sub-Zero Temperature Voices.I said something along the lines of:

    "[insert name], shut up before I really get angry. This isn't me angry, this is me giving you a warning of what's going to happen if you don't stop, right now. I don't care if you talk trash about my friends when I'm not around, since I can' hear it, but if you do it while I'm here I will try to kick your ass. We both know I'd fail and end up on the floor, but that wouldn't stop me from trying and you'd still have to take some hurt, trust me. So shut the fuck up about that and don't go dissing my friends name ever again when I'm around, alright?".

    You can perhaps imagine the awed silence in the room when the normally submissive and "bother-no-one" dude with the cheerful voice drops it down a few octaves and starts threatening the guy who had arguably the biggest Ego and need for dominance in the room as well as a lot more muscles.

    Funnily enough, I've gotten along great with the guy after that, once he saw that "I had some balls after all" and decided to start respecting me good and proper. He probably realized he went to far.
    Aizar and yellowbritt thanked this post.

  10. #10
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Sometimes it works when you "fake it till you make it." Kind of like act like everyone should like you until they do (it sounds weird but I swear it works.)

    Also, just don't lower yourself to their games. They will always win.
    mllesentiment and yellowbritt thanked this post.

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